Does Ashfur deserve to go to Starclan? By Moonpaw

Moonpaw shares their opinion about Ashfur and his placement in the ranks of StarClan.

Official art by Wayne McLoughlin

Now, here’s the question many of us have asked and many more will; Should Ashfur have gone to Starclan? Does he deserve the luxurious after life for the good cats? Or does he deserve the trecherous Dark Forest, does he deserve the pain? In this article, I will answer these questions to the best of my ability based on MY opinions.

So, first off, I’d like to say no. No I do not think he deserves to go to Starclan. And here’s the reasons why.

Reason number one, he threatened the lives of 4 cats from his clan, and nearly killed his leader. Fans can say what they want, that he was in pain, that he wanted love, that he couldn’t help himself, etc. But in reality, he was still in control of his own body. He still had the ability to think over his actions and choose which course to take.

He attempted to murder his own leader, and plotted with evil cats to do it. He was planning to watch his leader bleed to death over the fact that Squirrelflight chose Brambleclaw over him. Had he succeeded, he definitely would have gone to the Dark Forest; so why should we let him go to Starclan thanks to Brambleclaw being responsible and saving Firestar?

Onto Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf, Jayfeather, and Lionblaze. He had the ability to save them all, and perhaps earn Squirrelflight’s gratefulness. But instead, he chose to threaten to kill them all, simply because he wanted to punish Squirrelflight for not remaining mates with him. He would have rather killed them than talk it out rationally like a mature warrior. Not only was it lucky that Squirrelflight was able to talk him into letting them go, but he then threatened to reveal to every cat at the next gathering that The Three were not Squirrelflight’s kits. This could have possibly gotten then severely punished if he had talked the leaders into it.

So overall, he attempted to murder his leader, threatened to kill Squirrelflight and The Three, and changed their lives for the worse. He had complete control over his actions, and did all of this because of love drama. Thrushpelt handled it like Ashfur should have, this is proof that Ashfur didn’t have to take the course he took.

In conclusion, he deserves to go to the Dark Forest, and does not deserve to go to Starclan.

Just a reminder, this is my opinion. If you feel differently, feel free to comment why below.

Sincerely,
Moonpaw

  49 Replies to “Does Ashfur deserve to go to Starclan? By Moonpaw”

  1. Firewing That Doesn't Wear Green on St. Patties Day
    March 3, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    I enjoyed reading this article a lot, being the constructive reasoning behind Ashfur going to the Dark Forest. Now I’d like to enjoy giving you a counterclaim to why he should belong in StarClan.

    -First of all, let’s start with the assumption that Ashfur was in total control of his body when doing the things he did. And while that is technically true, didn’t Bluefur, or Yellowfang, or for that matter any other cat who broke the warrior code with half-Clan kits say “I’m so sorry, I didn’t mean for this to happen?” While that could just be a vain effort of self-consolation, let’s recognize the steps you need to take in order to actually have kits. You’d need to go out without the knowledge of your clanmates, intentionally be deceitful to them, and actually create the kits with this cat. You’ve obviously thought hard about loving that cat, and the things cats have done for love in this series have ended up with, well – proof of their relationship that some of them regret (e.g Yellowfang, Brokenstar.) So yes, Ashfur was in control of his body, but he acted very strongly out of love, and suffered for a total of… let’s count it together… an entire ARC! He said himself that rejection was like physical pain every day. So yes, he did act rashly and inappropriately. But when you have felt the pain of rejection, and the pain of a brutal death dealt by one of your EX-MATE’S KITS, do you think there would be a cat in StarClan that wanted him to suffer through more agony in a place where cats fight each other day and night, there’s no prey anywhere, and nobody treats each other with kindness? Personally, I would not advocate for Ashfur to go to StarClan or the Dark Forest. Instead, it would make sense for Ashfur’s character that he was sent to the “Unnamed Residence” that Lioneye, Dawnpelt, Needletail, and other ShadowClan cats were proven to be at by the end of DN. He could still be harboring the pain of rejection, but instead of being brutalized in the Dark Forest he would have the time to think over his actions, and then once he’s really thought about what he’s done, he could have been allowed to ascend into Silverpelt.
    For the record, I was just playing Devil’s Advocate. While I agree what I said above should have happened, I still want him to go to the Dark Forest and then be killed by some other DF cat. :p

    • Bramblefire
      March 3, 2018 at 11:50 pm

      1. Ashfur and Squirrelflight were never mates.
      2. Ashfur still attempted murder, Yellowfang and Bluestar didn’t.
      3. Murder cannot be justification for trauma. Many people experience hardships, but don’t attempt murder.
      4. Love should not compel people/cats to commit murder.
      5. Ashfur was never publically/proven to actually show remorse.

      • Firewing That Doesn't Wear Green on St. Patties Day
        March 3, 2018 at 11:54 pm

        1. Ashfur felt something for Squirrelflight but got rejected. This is rather similar.
        2. Yellowfang and Bluestar made mistakes for love. That was the point I was making.
        3. The type of trauma is only a matter of degree. After all, Hollyleaf commited murder too.
        4. Again, it’s only a matter of degree. Having kits/commiting murder could both be things they regretted.
        5. I was trying to draw a universe where Ashfur could redeem himself in order to enter StarClan.
        Thanks for your feedback anyway!

        • Bramblefire
          March 4, 2018 at 12:19 am

          1. She didn’t reject him. She outright says she wants to be his friend on numerous occasions. She never tells him/gives any indication that she wants more than that.
          2. I can see that, but they are not in the same ballpark. That was forbidden love, Ashfur was a sociopathic murder kitty bent on hurting innocents. That’s far from love. And he felt entitled to Squirrelflight’s affections.
          3. Not really. Not saying Hollyleaf was in the right, but her murder came from a different place. Ashfur did it out of hatred, Hollyleaf did it out of fear and didn’t break the code as much or do it twice.
          4. True, but the whole ‘he loved too much’ is far from the truth. It’s a falsity used by Ashfur because he didn’t love Squirrelflight, he was obsessed with her.
          5. I can see that, but he’d have to do a lot of redeeming.

          You’re welcome. I honestly love debates.

          • Firewing That Doesn't Wear Green on St. Patties Day
            March 4, 2018 at 6:06 am

            I like debating too. Let’s do a bit more! (Even though I don’t even agree with myself)

            1. While she didn’t “reject” him, saying something like “I think we should just be friends” to someone who has a crush on you generally means that you never become friends and always feel uncomfortable around them.
            2. He may not have been sociopathic, as that would imply that he is forcibly separating himself from the rest of the clan in his issues. Also, there isn’t any proof that Ashfur had a long-term goal to kill Squirrelflight’s kits. Have you ever been angry at someone, and then taken advantage of a negative situation to put them down? For people who do that, it would only be a matter of degree.
            3. There isn’t just Hollyleaf to compare Ashfur to. How many times in just the first series did Graystripe kill someone? If you would say that Clawface and Darkstripe were enemies that had to be killed to defend his clan, you have to realize that the warrior code says that you don’t have to kill other cats to win battles. I’m pretty sure Graystripe isn’t going to the Dark Forest, even in a world where Ashfur did. Ashfur could have perceived Squirrelflight and her kits as his enemies, which is very possible. It’s a difference of a personal to public level. Also, let’s note that Ashfur failed in both sequences of murder. Had he succeeded, I’m sure he would have ended up in the Dark Forest. I think the best analogy I can use to describe this is that attempted murder can result in four years of imprisonment, while murder could result in the death penalty.
            4. The “he loved too much” thing wasn’t even adopted by Ashfur in the first place. Yellowfang was the one who defended him to Jayfeather’s inquiries, and she told him that he “loved too much.” If Yellowfang, a wise StarClan cat who has been guided by her ancestors since she was born, thought Ashfur was deserving of salvation from the alternative afterlife, then I don’t know who I would be to argue.
            5. I think that they actually could have made Ashfur relevant to the story from AVoS. If they kept him in the Unnamed Residence, perhaps he could help the cats find peace around the lake so that he could finally go to StarClan. Since that’s not how the plot line is, I gotta agree with you on that.
            Edit: Wow! This counter-essay is longer than my original post.

            • Sundance
              March 4, 2018 at 6:22 am

              You’re a great debater, Firewing! 😀 (You oughta write an article about all this yourself! 😛 )

              1
              • Firewing That Doesn't Wear Green on St. Patties Day
                March 4, 2018 at 6:27 am

                Lol, thanks! Your support is appreciated 😀

                1
                • Firewing That Doesn't Wear Green on St. Patties Day
                  March 4, 2018 at 6:30 am

                  Wow, that was fast. Which Mod is hanging out here? 😛

              • Firewing That Doesn't Wear Green on St. Patties Day
                March 4, 2018 at 6:31 am

                Also Sundance, my first article has been submitted, and it’s about ShadowClan. Hopefully we should see it in a couple weeks 😀

            • Bramblefire
              March 4, 2018 at 3:15 pm

              1. Yeah, it hurts, but you could always be the bigger person and let it go. Turning to murdering their father and children is not a good solution no matter how angry you are. And Ashfur could have always tried to find a mate too later, but he never did. Not to mention, AshXSquirrel is really toxic.
              2. He literally trapped them in a fire and told Squirrelflight to watch as he burned them to a crisp. He obviously wanted them dead. And he plotted to kill Firestar too. Ashfur equates the death of her kits to his pain. He obviously wants to hurt her for doing nothing wrong. Squirrelflight should not be punished for not loving someone. She can’t control the fact that she loves Brambleclaw and not him.
              3. Yes, but these were very different cases. Ashfur perceived them as enemies because some cat he liked in high school wanted to be his friend. 9/10 people don’t turn to murder after they’ve been friend zoned. Take for instance Thrushpelt. He accepted that Bluestar didn’t love him, but still supported her because he wasn’t a spoiled child. And yeah, attempted murder isn’t murder, but it is still really bad, and technically, he succeeded with Firestar; he lost a life. Ashfur attempting murder also isn’t like Graystripe because it was never in the heat of a battle. He never had to kill anyone to protect anyone else. He did it for revenge. And you don’t just perceive your friend that you liked’s children as enemies and thinks that’s totally fine. No matter how much pain he’s in, he never chose to move on, find any peace, he chose murder and revenge every single time.
              4. Yeah, Yellowfang’s pretty wrong. Ashfur didn’t love Squirrelflight. Not one bit. Maybe at first but not when he tried to murder her father or her kits. Ashfur was obsessed with her, and that’s a very different concept. While infatuation in common in the early months of healthy relationships, obsession is the extreme side which dehumanizes one or both members. Obsessive love (Ashfur), which brings upon jealous and objectification teeters the relationship into an unhealthy one (Harvard Sciences). According to Dr. Raymond Jones, obsessive love is an oxymoron. It’s all about capturing and manipulating someone, dehumanizing that person in the process. Disguised as love, obsessive love takes over and tortures the victim. The obsessor may claim righteousness and that the victim should apologize for being in the wrong, even if they’ve done nothing wrong. Also, according to criteria for an obsessor, Ashfur follows the ones as follows; refuses to accept a relationship/friendship is over, gets angry when you (Squirrelflight) tell them its over, become hostile to you. Ashfur is a check for several of the criteria points. He never accepts that Squirrelflight loves Brambleclaw and blames her for it. He is seen as being hostile to her and being an outright jerk. Now he can be angry about this, but he’s angry well after it happened, and that’s far from healthy. Ashfur, at the point of Squirrelflight being with Brambleclaw, didn’t love her, he was obsessed with her. In another psychological article titled Warning Signs of Abusive Relationships, extreme jealousy (obviously Ashfur) and not taking no for an answer tops the list. Ashfur is a controlling cat that wanted to contain Squirrelflight’s fire rather than embrace it, and that’s not healthy for either character. Not by a long shot.

              1
              • Firewing That Doesn't Wear Green on St. Patties Day
                March 4, 2018 at 7:34 pm

                Okay, you win. But when did Firestar lose a life in Sunset after Brambleclaw dug up the fox trap?

                • Bramblefire
                  March 4, 2018 at 9:27 pm

                  It was confirmed by Erin Hunter outside of the books. I can’t remember which one, but it happened.

              • Iceclaw
                March 6, 2018 at 4:41 am

                If you’re fine with this, I would like to debate with you too. (I won’t do the 1, 2, 3, etc tho)

                Jayfeather once said that “their minds and hearts are dark and murky just like the place they dwell”. He was talking about the Dark Forest cats. I don’t know about you, but I don’t believe Ashfur was completely soulless. It’s true that he wanted vengeance and revenge, and tried to murder four cats, but he was not EVIL, like EVIL, EVIL. I believe that only EVIL cats go into the Dark Forest. He was not. I mean, he thought that he was getting somewhere with Squirrelflight, but after the badger attack, Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight grew closer together, and Ashfur was left alone, bitter. Imagine if you think you’re getting somewhere with your crush but then your crush friend zones you in the end and starts a relationship with another person. (In my opinion, friend zoning is painful :P) Yes, that doesn’t excuse him from his actions, but that can at least give you a wider perspective in his view.

                And Brambleclaw DID show displays of affection to Squirrelflight IN FRONT of Ashfur. If you ask me, that just encouraged the seed of jealousy inside him to grow. Brambleclaw “padded over and touched noses with her, trying to ignore the frosty look Ashfur gave him” (63, Sunset). He later asked Squirrelflight to join him in the dawn patrol IN FRONT of Ashfur. I understand that he was angry. He overheard Ashfur telling Squirrelflight that he was Tigerstar’s son. But still, it made Ashfur even more jealous.

                So in the end, Ashfur became psycho. Perhaps there was something wrong with him mentally. And because he was mental, can we blame him? He was a cat driven by rage and bitterness. Maybe StarClan, in the end, showed him mercy, because after all, he loved too much. Loved to the point that it became obsession. The obsession became anger. And anger caused him to not think properly. He felt pain. People say that he should just forget it, but how can he when he sees Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight every time?

                I sympathize with Ashfur. His actions may not be excusable, but he was just a cat. He’s not perfect. We all make mistakes, maybe even horrible ones.

                • Bramblefire
                  March 6, 2018 at 6:19 am

                  It’s hard to call anything he did a mistake. I’ve been friend zoned before, but I never tried to kill anyone or punish anyone for it. Brambleclaw is allowed to flirt with Squirrelflight and Ashfur can either be the bigger person and move on or not and suffer the consequences. Ashfur never tries to move on and stays focused on the issue he started. Brambleclaw doesn’t intend to make Ashfur jealous, but it’s hardly his fault on what Ashfur turned around and did. And I still find attempted murder evil. He still tried to kill people, including children, for no reason other than someone didn’t love him back. That’s absolutely terrifying. And blanket stating Ashfur was just angry and couldn’t think is bad too. Yeah, he probably wasn’t pleased, but he had no reason to feel the way he did. It happened years ago and he still hangs on to feelings he had. And lots of angry people take their emotions out in other healthier ways, Ashfur never does. He just gets violent, and that’s hardly sympathetic. He is the only one to blame for how he acts too. Maybe Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw should have paid more attention to Ashfur’s feelings, but when it gets down to it, they are Ashfur’s feelings. His responsibility. Ashfur tries to hurt innocent cats because he doesn’t get his way and tries to start conflicts. He isn’t an honorable sympathetic cat and he isn’t some hurt puppy dog either. I’m not saying he should forget Squirrelflight, but he should have tried to move on, he should have found a healthier way to take out his rage, but he doesn’t. He chose pain and violence every single time and I can’t feel bad for him. I can’t bring myself to pity someone who would and did have abusive tendencies.

                  1
                • Iceclaw
                  March 7, 2018 at 1:34 am

                  I know that what he did was inexcusable. But many people (and cats) decide to express their pain in different ways. For Ashfur, he decided to lash out at those who hurt him. He wanted to hurt Squirrelflight. I didn’t mean to say attempted murder was not evil. I meant to say that deep inside his heart, he isn’t evil. Dark Forest cats are evil. Their hearts are filled with bitterness and vengeance, like Ashfur, but unlike Ashfur, their hearts are dark. Soulless. Just because there was one area of Ashfur’s life where he did something wrong, doesn’t mean that overall, he’s evil. There are parts of his life where he’s completely loyal to his clan. Yes, maybe what he did wasn’t a mistake. He had control of his body after all, but I also said he didn’t think very well. It was like he was mentally crazy. The negative thoughts of rage, bitterness, anger, etc filled him. It’s like he didn’t have any more room for positive thought. He just filled it with negatives ones. I know he should have found a healthier way to express his emotions. But how can he, when he can’t think properly? How can he, when he’s just completely filled with jealousy? His emotions blinded him. His emotions made him make not so pleasant decisions. I didn’t say he deserved to go to StarClan. As I said earlier, maybe StarClan decided to show him mercy. He loved too much. He died horribly, as Dovewing said. We all want justice. But justice was served. He died in consequence for his decisions. Many people might say that’s not enough, considering his actions. He attempted murder, and that’s horrible. He acted out of jealousy. He allowed his emotions to get in the way. He didn’t attempt murder out of pure evil though. I don’t believe that. What will StarClan be if they decided to only show justice and not mercy? How many cats would have been sent into the Dark Forest? How many cats would have died? Everyone deserves justice, but everyone, no matter how undeserving they are, needs mercy at some point in their life.

                • March 7, 2018 at 4:55 am

                  He was an evil cat that made his own choices, very very bad ones everytime. And if a cat can get sent to the Dark Forest for hating their injured leg, attempted murder should count. And if he really loved Squirrelflight, he would have respected her choice. But he doesn’t. He never does. Ashfur never redeems himself, he never deals with his emotions in a healthy way. He stays bitter and does nothing to change his behavior. And for not being evil, he literally planned out how to murder Squirrelflight’s family, he planned it. That’s evil. He tried to murder children. That’s murder. He broke the code on killing a leader. That’s evil. He’s on Darkstripe levels if you ask me. He’s a bad cat that took the easy way out.


                  Beware of the padawans

                  1
                • Iceclaw
                  March 8, 2018 at 1:33 am

                  Again, I’m not saying Ashfur deserved to go to StarClan. I’m just saying that he shouldn’t go to the Dark Forest. He suffered enough already. Yes, he attempted murder, but he died for it. That was the consequence. Isn’t that enough? And as for staying bitter, it’s hard to forget it while being at the same clan as a cat you loved (well, a cat you formerly loved), and a cat that’s her mate. He should let go, I know. But obviously, it was hard for Ashfur. And again, just because there was one part of his life where he made horrible decisions, doesn’t mean he’s evil. He was loyal too. Remember the time when he was an apprentice? He distracted the dogs with Fernpaw.
                  I believe that StarClan would not have let Ashfur in if he was truly evil. If he is, he’ll probably cause havoc in the clans or try to hurt Squirrelflight again even when he’s dead. (Or maybe he’s too scared after he got murdered). I don’t know.
                  As for Ashfur redeeming himself, the book never said that he DID NOT redeem himself.
                  Until then, we just have to assume.

                  BTW, ur a good debater. I’m kinda running out of words to say :P. My school is learning debate so it’s a good practice for me.

                • Bramblefire
                  March 9, 2018 at 7:27 pm

                  I agree that he shouldn’t go to StarClan, but the Dark Forest, for what we know in-universe is the best place for him. I’d like to remind you that a cat grief-stricken after her kits were killed and a cat who wouldn’t except her injured leg are both in the Dark Forest. Ashfur did more than they ever did and Darkstripe didn’t technically kill anyone either besides assisting with Stonefur’s death and Ashfur did the exact same. He might have had different motivations, but he still attempted murder. It’s like that whole quote ‘cool motive, still murder.’ Darkstripe is in the Dark Forest and Ashfur is in StarClan getting cats to make excuses for him. And many other characters have suffered as well and dying for his crimes doesn’t make a right. He never tries to make it right, he never is seen doing anything to make up for attempted murder. Other cats in the series have died for their crimes, but they still need to show they want and will make a change, Ashfur never does. And yeah, it sucks that he’s in the same Clan as Squirrelflight, but that doesn’t justify him being outright mean to her. He was a crazy stalker guy that wanted to control her and never accepted or validated any of her feelings or emotions. By the point of Long Shadows, he didn’t really care about her, he cared about his idea of her and that’s very different. And I’m sure its hard on him, but its got to be hard on other cats too. Ashfur is selfish and only really cares about himself. He acted out poorly, had little reason to, and never regretted his actions as far as we know. And yeah, he’s evil. He attempted murder and that’s something most find bad. And it wasn’t like Hollyleaf’s either where she made up for it and felt like she had to protect herself, he did it out of hatred and cruelty, like Tigerstar or other Dark Forest cats. And Tigerstar and other villains were noble once too, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t evil. Some of the cruelest cats and people started off innocently but blossomed into true evil. Look no further than history. And for your statement about the book never says he didn’t redeem himself, well, it never said he did so I can’t say that he did without assuming he didn’t. There’s no evidence as far as readers know aside from other cats saying he did and they aren’t exactly reliable narrators.

                  Oh thank you. Glad I’m helping you get practice.

                  1
      • Ravenkit (is eating St.Patricks day gold coin chocolate)
        March 5, 2018 at 3:58 pm

        1. Yes they were

        • Bramblefire
          March 5, 2018 at 7:08 pm

          No, they were not. Maybe in Ashfur’s eyes, but Squirrelflight never saw him as a mate and only liked him as a friend. To be mates, both have to agree that they are mates, Squirrelflight never did. She always communicated that she was, and would always be, his friend. He took that too far and insisted they were something they weren’t.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Scroll Up

By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies. more information

The cookie settings on this website are set to "allow cookies" to give you the best browsing experience possible. If you continue to use this website without changing your cookie settings or you click "Accept" below then you are consenting to this.

Close