A Defense of Dovewing and Why I Don’t Like Ivypool by Stormtail

Stormtail shares their opinion on Whitewing’s two daughters, Dovewing and Ivypool.

Art by PureSpiritFlower

*Spoiler warning for “Omen of the Stars” and series beyond that, and for “Spottedleaf’s Heart” and “Tigerheart’s Shadow”.*

Hi everybody! Stormsong here. This article is going to be about Dovewing and Ivypool and my opinions on them both.
Personally, I feel like Dovewing is underrated and Ivypool is overrated. As hard as I try to like her, I have some problems with Ivypool. Of course, this is an article and it isn’t meant to be opinionated, so here are the facts, and why I think these facts make Ivypool out to be a bit of a jerk and why Dovewing is better than people think, all based on this point of view of these characters of the series:

People call Dovewing a “Mary-Sue”, which is someone who is perfect in every way. Either that, or they call her annoying.
Dovewing is not a Mary-Sue because she DID make mistakes. She broke the warrior code, fell in love with a cat from ShadowClan, had kits with that cat from ShadowClan, and left ThunderClan to join him. Twice. Also, she was very upset when she lost her powers, and someone who is a Mary-Sue would have little to no problem losing their powers (unrealistic as that would be).
People say Dovewing is annoying for freaking out about losing her powers; they especially talk about that scene when she went into the cave and kept on saying “Hello?” (Now, I am going to defend her in a way Brightkit did in the article “Dovewing is my Favorite Character—Here’s Why”, so you should totally go read that article as well and see what Brightkit said.) If you think about it in real life, it’s like she suddenly lost a lot of her sight and hearing and much of what she has always known and from a young age has gotten used to… Slowly but surely her hyper-senses (that were her normal senses for her) just vanished!!! Imagine if you were used to being able to survey large areas and then all of a sudden you couldn’t anymore. Wouldn’t that suck?! I think I would be freaking out ten times worse than she did.
I think the Tigerheart/star & Dovewing ship is completely justifiable. I’ve always been a rebel about the warrior code so I might be biased, but the facts are that Dovewing was trying to stay loyal to ThunderClan. Really, she was. She didn’t join Tigerheart when he left ThunderClan after Darktail’s reign. She visited him sometimes, but it was an improvement from seeing him every second of every day. But then they accidentally had kits together. She had to leave so her kits wouldn’t die (read “Tigerheart’s Shadow”), and I think this journey away from the Clans made her even more close to Tigerheart, since she was with him almost all of the time once again. Yes, she was with other cats, too, but those cats were not exactly the same to her as Clanmates, so Tigerheart was the main cat she had for support. See, with Clanmates, you grow bonds with them since birth (usually), and for these cats, Tigerheart and Dovewing just kind of met them. Eventually they did grow to become like Clanmates to the couple (probably), but living away from the warrior code meant Tigerheart and Dovewing were allowed to be together! And they had no intentions of going back at the time! So of course they’d take this opportunity that could last a lifetime to become closer. They had to raise a family together!!!
Dovewing had tried before not to become too attached to Tigerheart; as said prior, he had to stay in her Clan during Darktail’s reign and when he left, she kept going to see him, but she didn’t turn her back on her Clan. But this did it; “Tigerheart’s Shadow” broke her last chance of staying in ThunderClan. She was too attached to Tigerheart. I think she made the responsible decision in owning up to the fact that she’d broken the warrior code and going to join her new family in their Clan.

Still not certain Dovewing had justifiable actions? Think about this: If you had kits with someone from another Clan, what would you do?
A.)Join your mate and your kits so that they have all of their parents in one place?
B.)Separate your kits?
C.)Ignore your kits and pretend you’re not their mother; pretend they don’t exist or something?
If you said “A”, that really is the only good option!!!

Another reason why it’s justifiable that Dovewing left ThunderClan is that Tigerheart had just become Tigerstar, and he would probably need all the support he could get as a leader. Dovewing needed to join ShadowClan, for her kits’ sakes and for ShadowClan’s sake as well! Now the kits would have a true mother and father, together as a couple, in the same Clan, and the kits wouldn’t be uncertain of where they belonged, like would happen if Dovewing had stayed in ThunderClan and they’d known she was their blood mother. And, to reiterate, as a bonus, Tigerstar has his mate’s support as leader now, too.
Dovewing is my favorite character. This part of the article was why she isn’t a Mary-Sue or annoying, and why falling in love with Tigerheart and eventually joining him in ShadowClan is justifiable.

Ivypool can be a jerk sometimes. Okay, so I am a bit confused about why Spottedpaw in “Spottedleaf’s Heart” instantly knew that Thistleclaw was fighting in the Dark Forest, but Ivypool and a lot of other cats (who were older than when Spottedpaw saw it) went there in a future generation and thought it was StarClan, just because of the way the spirit-cats were acting at first… I believe this is the first reason Ivypool can be seen as slightly annoying sometimes. But this could have just been messed-up writing, so I’m putting this in the introduction of this section to just throw it out there.
First of all, it’s true that Ivypool never completely broke the warrior code. She was fighting in the Dark Forest to become a better warrior, then to spy for the good guys. Great, right? Well… kind of? The thing is, she never once seemed sympathetic for Dovewing for breaking the warrior code. That she was in love with Tigerheart. Ivypool, instead of supporting her and trying to talk her out of her feelings calmly, was always snappy about it! Never once that I recall did Ivypool sit down beside Dovewing (or even Tigerheart) and say peacefully, “I understand how you feel. But you have to stop. I just want to help you. I feel you, I really do. But, trust me, not falling in love with each other would be better for everyone.” Instead, Ivypool would say to Tigerheart, “YOU’RE A TERRIBLE MATE TO DOVEWING!” She said, “You need to stop seeing her, EVER.” Then she said, when Dovewing disappeared, “You should be out there with Dovewing! You’re better than her having nothing!” I feel like this contradicts what she said before, because she basically said before that no matter what, Tigerheart should stop seeing Dovewing and caring about her. Now she’s like, “Actually, go to her.” This is one reason why Ivypool can be a jerk. She is seemingly not sympathetic about cats making mistakes in the form of breaking the warrior code, so much so that she grows distant with Dovewing and angry with Tigerheart because of their mistake…
Another reason Ivypool can be a jerk is because she was so envious of Dovewing. This paragraph is going to be short, because you’ll all be screaming at me that if it were real life and my own sibling surpassed me in everything, I’d be upset, too. Yes, I would. But Ivypool screamed at Dovewing, asked her what her secret was in a harsh way! Okay, so that’s just one mistake, right? Ivypool lost it once? …Kind of? Ivypool was almost always envious of Dovewing, though. She didn’t seem to be happy for Dovewing for her successes enough to me…
Yet another reason Ivypool can be a jerk: Her kits. She wants her mate, Fernsong, to take care of their kits all the time. Yes, it’s ABSOLUTELY fine if it swaps and the father is the main parent and the mother does the (commonly, I’m not saying it has to be whatsoever!) “fatherly” things. But… It seems to me based on what she’s said, as far as I’ve read, at least, that Ivypool doesn’t want to spend much time with the kits. Won’t the kits feel like she’s basically neglecting them, once they get old enough to speak and understand parent relationships? Shouldn’t they have two supportive parents, their mother and father, instead of just their father and a mother who only is there to support them about half of the time? Because, yes, I’m sure Ivypool loves and cares for her kits, and is proud of them (I haven’t read far enough to see their relationship), however if she’s always off doing other things, she isn’t really helping her kits. I know, another not-very-well-put-together-paragraph. I might be completely wrong anyway. This is why this paragraph is in the middle.
The last reason why Ivypool can be a jerk is that she hardly ever told Lionblaze, Jayfeather, Dovewing, Bramblestar, etc. about what was going on in the Dark Forest. She was supposed to be the spy, and she almost always just didn’t tell them anything! Yes, of course she told them when the Great Battle was going to be, as she should, and as was the whole point of it all… But Lionblaze and Jayfeather (in particular) were specifically asking her what was going on in the Dark Forest, almost every other day! And what Ivypool said, almost every single time they asked, was “It’s not important; I’ll tell you if it’s important!” And she said it in a snappy way, as well. Aren’t you supposed to be more helpful as a spy?

Thank you all so much for reading! This was my first-ever article, so sorry that it’s extremely long and if it drags. And sorry if my points are falsely stated or unclear. I feel like all of this is true, but ah well.
Once again, that was a defense for Dovewing and how Ivypool can be a jerk sometimes (why I like Dovewing and dislike Ivypool). These reasons are why I personally consider Dovewing to be my favorite character and why I dislike Ivypool extremely. But I cannot force you to change your opinion, only ask you to read this article, consider my points, and decide what all of the evidence (that could go in any direction) from the books means to you.
Remember: This is just what I took from the books and how I feel about these characters; if you don’t think Ivypool can be a jerk at times and if you believe Dovewing can be very annoying, that is all up to you to decide, and PLEASE don’t take offense from this!
What is your opinion? Go ahead, tell me in the comments or with your own article! Only if you want to, of course.


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Flamekit/flower (Flamey)
Flamekit/flower (Flamey)
August 9, 2020 3:35 pm

I think this is a really great article, I just don’t agree with it. I feel like when Dovewing lost her powers, she was all “StarClan help me, I can’t see or hear any more! I’m going to die! I’m not special any more!” Whereas Lionblaze and Jayfeather were just disappointed and a bit upset, but they just sorta got over it and moved on with their lives. Besides, Dovewing running off with Tigerheart to be with him doesn’t make me hate her, and I think it’s really sweet that she choose her mate over her clan, but what does kinda make me despise her is how planned out her leaving ThunderClan was. I mean, Leafpool and Crowfeather kinda realizes they were in love with each other after Crowfeather saved Leafpool’s life, Feathertail and Crowfeather fell in love during a great journey where she ended up dying, Graystripe and Silverstream fell in love after she saved him, Graystripe and Millie fell in love over a great journey (not related, but is anyone else seeing a pattern? Graystripe and Crowfeather, two loves, two near-death experiences, two great journeys?), but Dovewing and Tigerheart just sorta…… met. There was no big event where they fell in love, and this is also right at the point when we’ve already had a bunch of forbidden romance (BlueXOak, GrayXSilver, YellowXRagged, CrowXFeather, CrowXLeaf, GrayXMillie, LionXHeather, JayXHalf), and the momentum it had is finally starting to slow down. That might be part of it, but I’m just NOT a Dovewing person. 🙂

September 21, 2020 8:40 pm

I like both sisters but I prefer Ivypool.

September 21, 2020 11:34 pm

I just wanted to say that if Dovewing didn’t leave when she was carrying Tigerheart’s kits, the kits wouldn’t have died. I’m not sure if I missed a book, but I’m pretty sure everything was perfectly find in ThunderClan’s nursery even after Dovewing left. I think it was just a vision she had that worried her. She didn’t have to leave. She chose to leave, and I think eating crow-food was against the warrior code but I’m not sure. It probably wasn’t honorable, though.

September 21, 2020 11:38 pm

I also wanted to say about Ivypool, she and her kits have a very good relationship, as much as any cat has. Like for Lionblaze and Jayfeather and Hollyleaf, Bramblestar spent more time with them than Squirrelflight. Does that make Squirrelflight a bad mother? The warriors books don’t really focus on the parents, especially with more important things going on. In the Broken Code, Ivypool does comfort Bristlefrost much more than Fernsong does. And as for spying on the Dark Forest, she doesn’t want to be a spy, and it is extremely dangerous. And as for her saying I’ll tell you if there’s anything important, she did, didn’t she? She did tell them the important things. They wanted to know who was training in the Dark Forest, and her not telling them and protecting them is just being a good cat and giving them a chance and change their minds.

September 21, 2020 11:40 pm

And Spottedpaw from Spottedleaf’s heart knew Thristleclaw was fighting in the Dark Forest because: It was dark and gloomy. They were in a forest without stars. And the cats were hurting each other purposely. For Ivypool, Hawkwing first brought her to a nice place, and seemed very understanding. They didn’t start in the Dark Forest. And when they did, she realized the truth, didn’t she?

September 22, 2020 6:09 pm

I think this is a pretty good article defending Dovewing, but why are you attacking Ivypool? I love Ivypool, and thinks she’s so much better than Dovewing. First of all, Spottedpaw instantly knew Thristleclaw had brought her into the Dark Forest because there were no stars, they were in a dark, gloomy forest, and the cats were hurting each other on PURPOSE. Wow, she must be so smart to guess that Thristleclaw had brought her to a terrible place and not StarClan. With Ivypool, Hawkwing visited her in her dream, and brought her to a pretty meadow with a stream. She didn’t recognize Hawkwing; how could she? She’d never seen him, she’d only heard stories! A pretty meadow with a stream? Did that sound like the Dark Forest? No! She thought it was StarClan, and frankly, it DOES sound like StarClan. And Hawkwing wasn’t mean to her! He just comforted her about Dovewing over shining Ivypool, and said that he could make her better. Well, in a book, Blossompaw was training for her warriors’ assessment, and Ivypool was her hunting partner, and Blossompaw said something like, “No! I don’t want to partner with Ivypaw! Can’t I have Dovepaw instead? At least she can hunt!” How would you feel if you were in Ivypaw’s position? I bet you’d feel hurt that your Clanmate was so mean to you, and, although it wasn’t Dovewing’s fault, jealous of Dovewing. So, of course she easily accepted to Hawkwing’s offer. And, Hawkwing kept her in the lovely meadow for a very long time until he brought her to the Dark Forest. And when he did, she realized immidietly that it was the Dark Forest and not StarClan, didn’t she? And about being sympathetic to Dovewing being in love with Tigerheart, first, I just have to say, Ivypool wasn’t in love with Fernsong at the time. She didn’t know what it felt like. All she knew was that her sister was breaking the Warrior Code, and she wanted to keep her sister safe. How in the world is that being a jerk??? As for Ivypool supporting her, she wanted to keep her sister from making a mistake she’d regret. Ivypool didn’t believe Dovewing was doing the right thing. And let me just say. Ivypool was never snappy about it until Dovewing and Tigerheart got more serious. In the first and second books, she just teased Dovewing about it because she was angry at Dovewing. When she started spying on the Dark Forest, she did all she could to prevent Dovewing from making a mistake nicely, BEFORE she started getting snappy. And besides, if you can overlook Dovewing, the Queen of Snappiness, how much times she snapped, you can definately overlook how many times Ivypool snapped. Dovewing wasn’t exactly nice with Bumblestripe’s feelings, either, and again, if you can overlook how mean Dovewing was to Bumblestripe, her not even CARING about his feelings, you can overlook Ivypool snapping at Dovewing, Ivypool trying to keep a sister she cared about from making a mistake. You also never recalled Ivypool sitting down with Dovewing for Tigerheart and having a peaceful conversation with them because CATS DON’T DO THAT. And even if she did do that, do you seriously think they’ll listen? She was trying to protect BOTH of them and keep them from breaking the Warrior Code. She was just being a GOOD CAT.

White Ghost of Halloween Rabbit (Whitepaw)
White Ghost of Halloween Rabbit (Whitepaw)
September 22, 2020 6:47 pm
Reply to  Icestorm

I don’t know why I am commenting on this 11-month old article, but I agree with you.

I am a cat!

October 22, 2020 7:50 pm
Reply to  Icestorm

Hawk…Wing? Do you mean Hawkfrost?

🍐A Pearfect Pear🍐
🍐A Pearfect Pear🍐
September 22, 2020 6:18 pm

This is a great article, although I personally like both Ivypool and Dovewing.

i may be pear but im not there

September 22, 2020 6:44 pm

Oh, yeah, about the Tigerheart Dovewing thing when Dovewing disappeared, Ivypool was just looking out for her sister like she always was. She told Dovewing not to see Tigerheart and Tigerheart not to see Dovewing because she was trying to protect her sister, not not be supportive. And when Dovewing disappeared, think about it: Would you rather have your sister disappear, carrying kits, which made it hard to walk and fight, alone, or would you rather have her with her mate, who can protect her, even if you disapprove of him. If she truly cared about herself more than Dovewing, she’d tell Tigerheart not to go after Dovewing, because she disapproves of the entire situation deeply. But since she did love Dovewing, she told Tigerheart to go after her. And you wrote she told Tigerheart he was a terrible mate to Dovewing. I don’t think she ever said that, but if she did, she was right, wasn’t she? Tigerheart HAD left Dovewing to journey all by herself, carrying kits. Anyways, about Ivypool being jealous of Dovewing, yes, she was extrememly jealous, but like you said, you’d be too. Well, it’s hard to be jealous and supportive of the same person. And after Ivypool stopped being jealous (she was only jealous in the first two books. She wasn’t jealous in other books. If she was, she’d accepted the role of the fourth cat in the prophecy Dovewing had offered her, saying, “Yup, I’m the fourth cat!” instead of saying, “It’s not me.”) Overall, Dovewing didn’t really have any achivements. The beavers, yes, but Ivypool was jealous of Dovewing at the time, and even without Dovewing, it would’ve rained someday. Honestly, I think Dovewing isn’t that needed in the prophecy at all. Anyways, after she stopped being jealous, Dovewing stopped having achivements. As for Ivypool and her kits, she’s a very good mother. She stays in the nursery with her kits, and plays with them, and is completely supportive of them. However, she has a Squirrelflight personality. She prefers to be out patrolling instead stuck inside a nursery, but she puts her feelings aside for her kits. You can’t blame her for wanting to go on patrols. Also, Bramblestar spent more time with Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Hollyleaf when they were kits, and that doesn’t make Squirrelflight a bad mother. If you really want two parents who equally support them, then it’s good that Fernsong is spending time with them. Also about Ivypool spying in the Dark Forest, Lionblaze and Jayfeather wanted information like, “Who are the cats who are training in the Dark Forest?” Ivypool only volenteered in giving them the important information, like when the battle is, and she did! Jayfeather and Lionblaze were trying to poke more. If it was Dovewing who was spying instead of Ivypool, I’m sure she’d have done the EXACT same thing as Ivypool. So that’s not a very good reason. Also, Ivypool was trying to give the cats training a chance to make the right choice and go onto the good side, like a GOOD CAT would do.

September 22, 2020 7:09 pm

Just wanted to add, I agree with you. Dovewing is nothing like a mary-sue. She’s not perfect. The annoying thing is, she thinks she’s a mary-sue. She once screamed something like this to Ivypool: “I’m a better hunter and fighter than you! I’m a better warrior than you! You’re jealous! That’s all! You’re jealous I’m better than you and always will be! You’re jealous Tigerheart likes me and not you! You’re jealous of me!” As for Dovewing loosing her powers, I get that she lost something she’s always had, but when Lionblaze and Jayfeather told her about those powers, she’d said something like, “I wish I didn’t have these powers! I wish I was just a regular cat! I don’t want these powers!” Well, she’d gotten her wish, didn’t she? And then she was complaining about it. First she whines that she doesn’t want her powers, than she whines when she loses them. Seriously. She only ever started liking her powers when she started liking Tigerheart so she could use her powers to SPY on him! Next, about the Tigerheart Dovewing thing, I used to ship them a lot. However, Dovewing did break the Warrior Code, and I don’t think going to another Clan is owning up to it. She also told Ivypool she was breaking the Warrior Code, which she was being a hypocrite. There’s nothing in the Warrior Code that says you can’t train in the Dark Forest, but there is a rule that says you can’t be with another cat from another Clan. (I used to love Dovewing but then hated her when she switched Clans. I honestly didn’t care if she was with Tigerheart or not, but I just hated her for leaving ThunderClan). I agree Dovewing did her best to stay loyal, but she didn’t, did she? It didn’t matter how hard she tried; it’s if she did it or not. When they did this vow to become warriors, I think it had something where they’ll put their Clans before themselves. Well, Dovewing did not do that. She should’ve brought her kits back to ThunderClan, like a loyal warrior. Most half-Clan cats stay with their mother. I don’t recall there ever being a cat who switched Clans for their kits, other than Graystripe, but it was because he didn’t have any kin in ThunderClan and Silverstream just died and RiverClan wanted the kits. They were going to go into battle if Graystripe hadn’t let RiverClan take his kits and go with them. Technically, he was still putting his Clan first. With ShadowClan and ThunderClan, I highly doubt they would have went into battle if Dovewing stayed in ThunderClan, considering how weak ShadowClan was at that time. Why would Dovewing need to go to ShadowClan for ShadowClan’s sake? If she thought that way, doesn’t that mean she’s not a loyal warrior? Also, her kits wouldn’t have died if she hadn’t went to the city. I don’t seem to remember the nursery collapsing or anything! So technically, Dovewing broke the warrior code three times. She mated with Tigerheart, had kits with him, left her Clan to go to the city without telling anybody, left her Clan to go to ShadowClan, and ate crow-food (I’m not really sure about the last one.) So she broke the code three or four times!

♥️Singin' in the Graveyard/Rainsong (Rainyyy)♥️
♥️Singin' in the Graveyard/Rainsong (Rainyyy)♥️
September 22, 2020 7:33 pm

Great article Stormtail!!! I actually like both sister and I agree that when Dovewing lost her powers, it was quite reasonable. Its like if you just went blind or something all the sudden. Both sisters had their good times and bratty times, but I have to say I do like Ivypool a little more 😛

Sᴘɪɴɴɪɴɢ ɪɴ ᴍʏ ʜɪɢʜᴇsᴛ ʜᴇᴇʟs

Hate dovewing
Hate dovewing
September 26, 2020 1:57 pm

This makes sense, but Dovewing should have been able to cope with the power loss, if only because it bothered her Clanmates so much. I mean, she could see Bumblestripe worrying about her, and if she truly cared, she would have forced herself to stop freaking the heck out of her Clan. Also, she kinda doesn’t do anything against the battle of the Dark Forest she just worries pointlessly, waking her sister at the important moments while doing nothing herself. She uses her powers, blessings from StarClan themselves to look out for cats on dates with Tigerheart. And when Tigerheart uses her sister for catmint, she blames him, but I don’t get why. Tigerheart is just loyal to his Clan, that’s all, whereas she can’t even manage following the Warrior code. As for the “If you had kits with another’s Clan what would you do ?“quiz, I say that I would be so very proud , so happy and only too willing to throw them away and pretend they don’t exist and leave them to be with my birth Clan. This is a great article and is very logical, and I hope you don’t get upset or offended; just my opinion.I have a strong opinion about faith and loyalty.

Last edited 27 days ago by Hate dovewing
Embers of an Autumn Dawn (Emberdawn)
Embers of an Autumn Dawn (Emberdawn)
September 26, 2020 5:27 pm
Reply to  Hate dovewing

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