Observing Ashfur: StarClan or the Dark Forest? by Spottedpaw

Spottedpaw explains why or why not Ashfur should have went to the Dark Forest instead of StarClan.

Art by City’s Warrior Kitties on tumblr

Spoilers will arise, if you haven't read the last two books of The Power of Three at least. You've been warned.
Hello, everyone! If you're viewing this, thank you so very much! It means a lot to me that you are willing to take time to read this article! I know that it's very long, but hang around for a while, I worked very hard and it'll be worth your time. Now, there are many arguments and viewpoints on this topic, as well as more than a hundred articles. Be ready for many viewpoints and arguments to arise, for I am listing supporting details for each argument. I will share my opinion in the end.

Why Ashfur is deserving of StarClan:

So, as many of you know, Ashfur attempted murdering Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather. This happened in Long Shadows, when there was a forest fire. He backed the three siblings to the edge of a cliff, and burning trees and branches fell, blocking their escape. Squirrelflight was with them, and she just narrowly avoided their deaths by revealing them not to be her kits at all. Ashfur, as we probably know, was delighted to hear that! He’d not have to murder anyone, but reveal Squirrelflight’s secret and tear her apart worse than death ever could! Now you’re probably thinking “What? I thought this was supposed to be the part where you support him being in StarClan!” It is! So, now that we’ve covered that, forget it. Yes, forget it. Don’t remember this, I know it’s hard, but don’t. Remember when Tigerstar unleashed the dogs in the old forest? And they murdered Ashfur and Ferncloud’s mother? Who led himself and his sister toward danger to defeat the vile creatures? Who grieved as any cat would for her death? Who supported his sister though he was grieving just as bad? Hmm . . . I wonder . . . oh! Oh, wasn’t it Ashfur? Maybe? Yes! He did all of that, and not just because of his mother being murdered by the dogs, but his Clanmates were terrified! He obviously wanted to do something to ease their suffering and destroy the dogs forever! That, my friends, is one purrfect cat! Also, think of this: Ashfur was driven cray with love for Squirrelflight! So, all of you saying “Squirrelflight, most amazing, wonderful Squirrelflight, you are harmless and innocent in this!” are wrong. She’s not. She was all cuddly-cuddly, snuggle-snuggle with Ashfur while she was mad at Brambleclaw. Then, oh, suddenly, they made up and she’s thrown Ashfur to the dirtplace. Now, I’m not saying Squirrelflight should have been his mate because he wanted her to be, I just think that she should’ve been more kind and gentle in telling Ashfur she didn’t love him as she did Brambleclaw. Also, I love Squirrelflight character, so I’m not hating on her. I’m just pointing out that she is just as much to blame as any cat for Ashfur’s insanity, and that she’s not just the poor cat who would do anything for her sister. Okay, last thing before I sum this up. Look at Hollyleaf. Just wanting to be a good warrior, and good Clanmate. But she murdered Ashfur, just to keep a secret. That’s ironic, though, she went to StarClan, even though she murdered another cat! Now, Ashfur may have attempted murder, but I don’t believe I read of him actually killing any cat. Now that we’re all done with this section, let’s sum it up.
►Ashfur deserves to be in StarClan because he was a truly good cat. He grieved for his dead mother, killed by the dogs Tigerstar unleashed in the forest. He wanted to help his Clan by being the best warrior he could be by volunteering to lead the dogs from camp, where they eventually fell to their deaths.
►Ashfur deserves to be in StarClan because he is no worse than any other cat that went to StarClan. Hollyleaf went, but she, again, murdered him! So, even if he attempted murder, it didn’t work, but Hollyleaf’s did. Next, we’re going into why he does not deserve to have the title of a StarClan cat.

Why Ashfur is deserving of the Dark Forest:

This one will be shorter because I won’t put Ashfur’s attempted murder story, but nevertheless full of reason why he deserves to be in the Dark Forest. First of all, he threatened four cats with death. He’d have actually killed the four cats if Squirrelflight hadn’t told him the truth. Some counteract this with the whole “He may have threatened, but he didn’t really do it!” argument. But we all have that sneaking suspicion that he would have murdered them if Squirrelflight hadn’t told the truth. Okay, so here’s one of the biggest things you may have though I forgot, but I didn’t. Remember Firestar getting trapped in the Twoleg trap? Hawkfrost and Ashfur himself set that up. Who? Ashfur. Why? He wanted Squirrelflight to feel “real pain.” So you see, Hawkfrost may have helped that get set up, but Ashfur wasn’t forced to do it—he chose to. He chose his path when he tried to murder Squirrelflight’s father. He chose his path when he also tried to murder Squirrelflight, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather. Now we’re done with this as well. Let’s sum it up!
►Ashfur deserves to go to the Dark Forest because he tried, doesn’t matter if he failed, to murder five different cats! First it was Firestar with the Twoleg trap. Then it was Squirrelflight and her “kits.” Who would’ve been next if Hollyleaf hadn’t killed him?
►Ashfur deserves to go to the Dark Forest because he went crazy with “love,” as people would call it. He was a crazy young hag! Just because he didn’t get the girl, he thought that to be a valid excuse for trying to murder the she-cat he loved, and may still love, along with what he thought was her kits! What kind of crazy mouse-brain would to that? Let’s say . . . he was a fox-hearted, bee-brained, piece of fox-dung!

My opinion on where Ashfur needs to be:

I’m not entirely sure. What I just posted was completely hand-typed. Nothing was pasted. My sources were the books and that was it. There are some very heavy, important arguments. Ashfur was an amazing cat at first, but just because he lost his love that didn’t love him back, it doesn’t mean go crazy and become Mr. Attempted Murder. So, with that being said, I’ve made my decision. Ashfur deserves the Dark Forest. Hollyleaf, on the other hand, does not. Why? “Oh, but Hollyleaf killed! He did not!” So what? In his last moment. do you really believe he was thinking about apologizing to Squirrelflight, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather for his actions and repenting on them? Really? No, of course he wasn’t! Hollyleaf died saving Ivypool, her Clanmate. Hollyleaf was a truly good cat. The same can not be said about Ashfur. He was once good, but he would not stay that way . . .

If you read that all of the way through, good job! It was a lot, but trust me, I’m sure you loved it! If not, tell me in the comments. I have a few questions below for you toms and she-cats!

Where do you think Ashfur belongs? Why?
If you were Ashfur, what would you have done? Why?
Did you love this article? If so, tell me why. If not, give me some suggestions, I definitely don’t mind some constructive criticism! Just please don’t barb your words with mean insults.

  35 Replies to “Observing Ashfur: StarClan or the Dark Forest? by Spottedpaw”

  1. June 14, 2020 at 1:29 am

    I mostly think that Ashfur should be in the Dark Forest.
    *spoilers ahead*
    While he didn’t actually kill Hollyleaf, Jayfeather, Lionblaze, or Squirrelflight, he technically killed Firestar in a sense by causing him to lose a life. If Firestar was still Fireheart, he would be dead. While Firestar did get to continue living his life, he still lost a life, which isn’t a big deal when thinking about how he has others, but if he was on his last life, he would be dead. Also, while Ashfur attempted murder (and committed murder in a sense) because Squirrelflight broke his heart, he did not have to decide to murder her and those she loves because she decided that her heart lies elsewhere.
    *end of spoiler*
    Nice article! 😀

    “I am no Jedi” -Ahsoka Tano

  2. Stormlight
    June 14, 2020 at 2:45 am

    I agree! I liked how you put both sides, instead of just saying “Ashfur’s the worst put him in the Dark Forest forever.” But yeah, what he did was very wrong, and I doubt he would’ve left Squirrelflight and The Three alone afterwards.

    (I wonder what would’ve happened if Squirrelflight had just told Firestar that Ashfur tried to kill them before he was going to reveal their secret…)

    be the light inside a storm

  3. falling feather
    June 14, 2020 at 6:05 am

    Nice article!
    You have some really great points! 😀

    look in the sky

  4. June 14, 2020 at 8:22 am

    Ashfur doesn’t deserve the DF. Hollyleaf, on the other hand totally deserved it. He SAID he was going to kill them, which is very different to ACTUALLY killing them. He THREATENED to reveal the secret, but I don’t think he would. Hollyleaf KILLED him for THREATENING to reveal the secret, and then REVEALED the secret.
    Also when Brambleclaw (man Bramblestar’s horrible) kept on being horrible to Squirrelflight, she didn’t care that he was being kind to her. She was horrible! She quite frankly didn’t deserve him.

    Nice article though!

    Click my name!

    • mellowix
      June 14, 2020 at 6:02 pm

      Ashfur’s attampted murders weren’t merely “threats”, it was much worse than that. If he really only threatened them, it would be in a safe environment. However, it wasn’t.

      Ashfur was actively blocking the Three’s only escape route, while fire was coming nearer to them. Hollyleaf even fell off the cliff at one point due to his actions: “The branch made a bridge through the flames, but Ashfur stood at the other end of it, blocking the way to safety. […] “Horrified, Hollyleaf took a step back and felt her hind paws begin to slip on the edge of the cliff. Her head spun as lightning stabbed out and thunder drowned all other sounds, even the roaring fire. For a heartbeat she dangled over empty air, and she let out a strangled yowl. Then she felt firm teeth meet in her scruff; blinking against the smoke, she realised that Lionblaze was hauling her back to safety.” – Long Shadows.

      Ashfur also admitted that he caused their grandfather to lose a life, while trying to frame their father. Ashfur was a murderer and blackmailer at large – He was serious threat who could have destroyed Hollyleaf’s family at any moment if she didn’t do anything. He’d been warned 4 separate times that telling the secret could destabilise Thunderclan, but he declared he didn’t care.

      The Warrior Code says the killing rule has exceptions for self-defence or the opponent is outside of the warrior code, which
      both could apply to Ashfur.

      - Mellowix

      • Foxflight773
        June 15, 2020 at 10:51 pm

        Thank you @Mellowmix. I just checked the code and you are correct. Ashfur deserved the DF but SOMEHOW made it into SC so it is COMPLETELY possible that he tricked himself into it to SPY for the DF.
        Post if you agree.
        Foflight773 >^.^<

  5. June 14, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    I think Ashfur deserves the Dark Forest. Also, this is a really nice article! 😀
    She has those eyes, that smile. I’m starting to feel dizzy.

  6. June 14, 2020 at 4:14 pm

    I really like Ashfur and I feel really bad for him so I don’t want him to be in the Dark Forest, but it’s pretty clear at the end of TBC he will be… especially considering he’s now exiled many cats and killed Stemleaf as well.


  7. Goldenfawn
    June 14, 2020 at 4:50 pm

    I personally believe he belongs in the Dark Forest. Like Stormy said, he succeeded once in murder, even if Firestar did come back to life. If we were going by human laws (which, I know they don’t go by those, but could still shed some light on his actions), Ashfur would possibly be charged with attempted murder (Firestar), kidnapping (keeping them in the fire), and reckless endangerment (keeping them in the fire). Probably more, too. Getting your heart broken is never an excuse for that.

    Yes, maybe Squirrelflight “led him on” or “friendzoned him”. Okay, and? 😛 Maybe not the coolest thing to do but she’s much more innocent than Ashfur in all of this. And her kits. When Ashfur became Lionblaze’s mentor, he attacked him and used claws, for what? Because he was supposedly the kit of Squirrel and Bramble? And of course the fire.

    Obviously Hollyleaf is not innocent, but I believe the reason that killing Ashfur is a plot point is because it showed the inherent flaws in Hollyleaf’s mindset. You can’t follow every rule to a tee, and sometimes you have to follow one over the other. Such as, accepting you’re not full ThunderClan even though it breaks the Warrior Code, rather than murdering someone. 😛 Hollyleaf also redeemed herself, which is why she’s in StarClan. Ashfur did not, as he died while planning how to ruin lives. Maybe he would have if he’d lived.

    Insanity is not a plea for Ashfur to belong in Starclan or that he’s innocent, as Mapleshade was clearly driven to insanity but broke the Warrior Code in such ways that she could not go to StarClan.


    • Emberheart and Foxclaw
      June 14, 2020 at 10:22 pm

      The secret Ashfur was going to reveal should never have existed, and Hollyleaf should’ve let him reveal it. She said she wanted him to deep down because she wanted Leafpool and Squirrelflight to suffer. Then she killed him because she changed her mind. Then she REVEALED IT HERSELF. In my opinion, nothing can redeem Hollyleaf. She is EVIL. She murdered Ashfur, Threatened to kill Leafpool, attacked Jayfeather, then abandoned her clan. She is the least brave, least loyal, whiney, hypocritical cat in clan history. She reminds me of Dovewing, who I also don’t like. Hollyleaf was my favorite until she lost her mind completely.

      • Goldenfawn
        June 15, 2020 at 1:00 am

        I understand your opinion and you’re free to disagree with me! 🙂 Hollyleaf being sent to the Dark Forest if she died in the tunnels and ending up in the final battle would have been cool tbh. Maybe I’m a huge hypocrite, but I feel worse for Hollyleaf than Ashfur. Both of them had horrible reasons for doing what they did, but Ashfur was upset because someone friendzoned him meanwhile Hollyleaf just found out she’d been lied to her whole life. Still a stupid reason, though. 😛 How is she not brave? She died sacrificing herself for Ivypool.

        (Protip: If you find out you’re adopted, don’t commit murder, kiddos!)


      • mellowix
        June 15, 2020 at 12:19 pm

        Just because Hollyleaf and Ashfur’s situations are connected, doesn’t make them comparable. The circumstances that leading up to their crimes are different:

        Ashfur – He did in reaction to Squirrelflight simply wanting to remain friends and getting creepily obsessed with her. He started a situation when there wasn’t one. Nothing needed to change. He could’ve have continued to be Squirrelflight’s friend, he didn’t lose anything. he still had his home, friends and family. He could’ve of got help from literally anyone, even rival cats at Gatherings if he wanted to. His anger didn’t need to be secret, it was entirely self-inflicted.

        His murders didn’t even target those directly involved, it’s against innocent cats that had nothing to do with it. His first attempted murder was on his Clan leader, strangling him with a metal wire to lose all his nine lives. That’s one of the most tortuous murder method possible. Secondly, he worked with a well-known Riverclan troublemaker, tricking his own apprentice as scapegoat, Birchpaw and tried to frame Blackstar. By involving rival Clan cats, it could have started wars with Riverclan, Shadowclan or both.

        After literal years, Ashfur violently attacked his other apprentice, causing deep wounds. Then tried to burn three cats alive, including said apprentice and blind Medicine cat, while keeping their injured ‘mother’ prisoner to watch. Like Firestar, he uses another horrific murder method of burning his victims alive.

        When he decides to tell the secret, he didn’t care he could destabilise of Thunderclan in front of the gathering. He was warned 5 separate times not to, even if it was directly after a four Clan battle. Even giving Jayfeather a second death threat for warning him. He stated it was intention to get Squirrelflight exiled, so he was purposefully going to make the reaction worse . He did nothing to redeem himself. He also felt no regret for his actions, even in Starclan, looking at Jayfeather with ‘burning eyes’ clearly still bitter.

        Hollyleaf – Her crimes were in reaction to other cats’ crimes. She wouldn’t of done her crime if she didn’t start out as an innocent victim being unwilling dragged into other cats’ dangerous messes. Everything happened to her in less than a month, a very short time span, literal life and death situations at certain points. Multiple life-changing reveals happening one after the other relentlessly, Hollyleaf was having a genuine mental breakdown. Unless Ashfur, who had external forces pressuring him into his crimes, a self-inflicted extremely petty motive and literal years to stop himself.

        She murdered the cat; who’d literally tried to burn her and littermates in a fire while their ‘mother’ watched a few days previously. That same cat admitted he worked with a Riverclan cat to murder their grandfather and was planning on ruining her entire kin’s lives, despite being given chance after chance. He was an mass murderer and blackmailers at large. There was no reason he couldn’t kill another victim – Hollyleaf shouldn’t need to sit and wait for that to happen. Exposing his crimes could’ve acted as his trigger to another killing. The killing rule for the Warrior Code says there’s two exceptions, which can both apply to Ashfur: Self-defence and Outside of the code. I don’t consider it much different from Hawkfrost’s or Darkstripe’s deaths.

        When she revealed the secret, it was under a different context. Ashfur solely knew about Squirrelflight wasn’t the mother of the three, therefore wasn’t a concern of the other Clans, so has no business leaking it at a Gathering. It was his intention to get Squirrelflight exiled, so he’d purposefully make it worse. However, Hollyleaf did no such thing – She solely told the secret, but never intentionally made the public reaction worse.

        The context had changed by the time Hollyeaf had told it. She uncovered a whole Medicine cat and Half-Clan scandal – It involved Windclan, so they had the right know at the Gathering, Specially since Crowfeather had a Windclan son and mate he was lying to. Before then, Crowfeather had been informed of his Thunderclan kits, but immediately denied it and disowned them. If he was unwilling to confess his guilt, someone else had to expose him. Then, Leafpool held authority as a Medicine cat, yet she was lying to all the Clans – They couldn’t trust her not to abuse her power.

        Unlike, Ashfur, Leafpool’s attampted murder couldn’t be considered self-defence. However, it still needs to be acknowledged that Leafpool is not innocent and Hollyleaf is directly her victim, lying to her about her own birth. That needs to give her leeway in some way. Then I wouldn’t call what Hollyleaf did to Jayfeather a full-blown “attack”. By that point, she’d given into panic and trying to escape the cramp Medicine den. Jayfeather was blocking her path, he didn’t move when Hollyleaf called him to: She shoved him away, they briefly fell to the floor and she immediately jumped away.

        Then if we just compare the methods Ashfur and Hollyleaf of murders, you’ll see a large difference. Ashfur were torturous like slow strangling and burning alive, even forcing others to watch. While Hollyleaf always kept hers private and quick; Ashfur was a singal bite, she could’ve chosen to extend his suffering, but didn’t. Then deathberries, are literally used for Medicine cat to save patients a slow death.

        What you call Hollyleaf running away, I call self-exile. She didn’t choose to do it in the first place: She was too panicked to make a proper choose, but she never got the chance to calm down before the tunnel collapsed on her, she couldn’t control that. She needed time to physically and mentally recover, and by the time she was healthy, it was too late, her clanmates already assumed she was dead.

        She was having a dangerous breakdown, literally causing her to hurt those around her. Would it really be a good idea for her to stay in Thunderclan, where her stress could cause her to lash out again? She needed to isolate herself for her own and others safety. That’s how it works in real life, dangerous people are either locked up either in prison or mental hospitals.

        If her Clanmates discovered what she’d done, Firestar would’ve exiled her. Yes, standing trial would’ve of been the most honorable action, but self-exile is a close second. For sake of keeping down emotional pain and safety, quietly slipping away would probably be the better opinion.

        Either way, she would of ended up leaving anyway. Thunderclan never especially ‘needed’ her anyway, she was an average warrior. She neither a part of the prophecy, a leader, mother of young kits, etc. she didn’t have any specific relasonabilities that couldn’t be done by almost anyone else in the Clan. She thought she could better serve her Clan as a silent guardian, rather then troublemaking Hollyleaf.

        Hollyleaf feels incredibly guilty afterward, recognising what she did was wrong, thinking she didn’t deserved her place in Thunderclan . She redeemed herself by: Saving two apprentices, leading four cats out of the tunnels, gathering herbs, and preparing Thunderclan for Windclan tunnel attacks. When her clanmates started to suspect her involvement with Ashfur’s death, she confessed some truth, like explaining Ashfur’s crimes and taking responsibility for his death. She was prepared to explain it all, but Brambleclaw unexpectedly covered some details for her. She doesn’t mortally approve of his actions, however he unnecessarily risked his reputation/position for her behalf, so she still honours his sacrifice.

        She then spared Sol’s life despite everything he did and sacrificed herself to save Ivypool. Finally, she forgave Leafpool for what she did to her.

        - Mellowix

      • Brillig
        June 15, 2020 at 10:12 pm

        When did Hollyleaf attack Jayfeather?

        • June 16, 2020 at 8:29 pm

          She scratches him in Sunrise after trying to give Leafpool deathberries if I’m remembering that book correctly.

          Definitely not making an army.

        • June 17, 2020 at 6:53 pm

          Sunrise, Chapter 28:

          “Hollyleaf! What are you doing here?” Sniffing, he detected another scent. “Why are those deathberries out here?”

          “Leave me alone!” Hollyleaf screeched. Before Jayfeather could dodge, she leaped at him, bowling him over and raking her claws across his shoulder. Jayfeather’s legs flailed and his hind paws connected with Hollyleaf’s belly. Her anger and despair flooded over him as she gave him a cuff over the ear and fled out of the den.

          I don’t really think this counts as an attack, as Hollyleaf was running away from Jayfeather, not intentionally trying to directly harm him.


  8. Flamekit/flower
    June 14, 2020 at 5:04 pm

    I don’t think that Ashfur deserved the DF, but I also don’t think he deserved StarClan. If there was a place in StarClan that didn’t have a lot of prey, then I think that that is where Ashfur should have gone.

  9. Dovekit
    June 14, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    This is so good! 😀

  10. Emberheart and Foxclaw
    June 14, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    Okay I’m shocked so many people want him to be in the Dark Forest. Ashfur was a wonderful cat for two whole series and was only bad for half a book. In my opinion, you shouldn’t remember Ashfur for one book, instead of looking at the big picture. I mean, compare him to StarClan cats. The Dark Forest is for cats like Tigerstar and Hawkfrost. Cats who HAVE KILLED many times and want revenge on as many people as possible. Ashfur doesn’t fit any of these descriptions.

    Bluestar: Bluestar was crazy for most of the time you know her in prophecies begin, naming cats cruelly, declaring war on innocent cats, and calling every cat in her own clan a traitor. Now she is the most respected StarClan cat ever. What makes her deserve that and not Ashfur? For most of Ashfur’s life, he was loyal and kind. For most of Bluestar’s life, she was self-centered and paranoid. Yes, I read Bluestar’s Prophecy. I’m not saying she belongs in the Dark Forest, just that StarClan’s expectations are very loose. All cats in the forest killed other cats in battle or otherwise, while Ashfur hasn’t killed anyone. So why is he so terrible?

    Hollyleaf: Another strangely beloved character that could’ve just as easily, or even more deserving of the Dark Forest than Ashfur. She called herself brave and loyal. Wow so loyal she killed a cat from her own clan, threatened to kill the medicine cat with deathberries, attacked Jayfeather, [the other medicine cat and her own brother] spoke out the secret she killed for not to be told, [making it pointless] AND ran away to get trapped in the tunnels because she was scared. What’s brave about that? What’s so loyal? Hollyleaf lost her mind and killed cats like they were prey. Dark Forest for sure. She just wasn’t stable and whined about the warrior code while breaking it a billion times.

    I also think SquirrelXBramble is a terrible ship. They are always fighting and so quick to leave each other. I honestly wish Squirrelflight was with Ashfur, while Bramblestar was with Jessy. HUndreds of bad things wouldn’t have happened. BrambleXSquirrel have a bad relationship where they both abuse each other. This is all Squirrelflight’s fault, and Bramblestar as evil. They don’t deserve to be around each other and it only causes more suffering for everyone when they are together.

    • June 14, 2020 at 11:40 pm

      didn’t ashfur kill firestar


      • Goldenfawn
        June 15, 2020 at 1:02 am



        • June 15, 2020 at 3:37 am

          Oh ashfur’s evil for sure.

          Join the rebels!

    • Birchfoot
      June 15, 2020 at 1:15 am

      ashfur did attempt murder because squirrelflight didn’t wanna date him though which is…yikes

    • Dralkyrie
      June 16, 2020 at 6:15 pm

      >The Dark Forest is for cats like Tigerstar and Hawkfrost. Cats who HAVE KILLED many times and want revenge on as many people as possible. Ashfur doesn’t fit any of these descriptions.

      Actually, he kinda does. Ashfur has indirectly killed Firestar once, attempted/threatened murder on three cats just because Squirrelflight didn’t want to be mates with him, and assuming he is the Imposter, that’s not even half of the things he’s done. Hence, just his willingness to tell the Clans something that would (you can say has)cause chaos in ThunderClan and even in the other Clans deliberately as revenge and his complete lack of moral ethics as long as he hurt Squirrelflight alone makes him worthy of the Dark Forest in my opinion.

      >Bluestar: Bluestar was crazy for most of the time you know her in prophecies begin, naming cats cruelly, declaring war on innocent cats, and calling every cat in her own clan a traitor. Now she is the most respected StarClan cat ever. What makes her deserve that and not Ashfur? For most of Ashfur’s life, he was loyal and kind. For most of Bluestar’s life, she was self-centered and paranoid. Yes, I read Bluestar’s Prophecy. I’m not saying she belongs in the Dark Forest, just that StarClan’s expectations are very loose. All cats in the forest killed other cats in battle or otherwise, while Ashfur hasn’t killed anyone. So why is he so terrible?

      You’re right that Bluestar went insane and was a bad leader after Forest of Secrets, but the thing is, Bluestar went through a lot, which you should know if you read Bluestar’s Prophecy. She’s lost her mother, her sister, her father, and even her kits. In my opinion, all the losses she’s faced piled up over time and Tigerclaw’s betrayal was the final straw that caused her to turn insane. Bluestar’s paranoia was completely understandable to me, while Ashfur’s reason for attempting to murder three (arguably four) cats was extremely petty. Furthermore, I don’t think any of the things Bluestar did is really comparable to what Ashfur did. Again, Ashfur attempted to murder cats for revenge, while Bluestar was just extremely paranoid as a result of loss and betrayal. About the worst thing she did during her period of insanity was almost declare war on WindClan for no apparent reason. Key word there is almost, and to be fair, Bluestar did eventually back down.

      >Hollyleaf: Another strangely beloved character that could’ve just as easily, or even more deserving of the Dark Forest than Ashfur. She called herself brave and loyal. Wow so loyal she killed a cat from her own clan, threatened to kill the medicine cat with deathberries, attacked Jayfeather, [the other medicine cat and her own brother] spoke out the secret she killed for not to be told, [making it pointless] AND ran away to get trapped in the tunnels because she was scared. What’s brave about that? What’s so loyal? Hollyleaf lost her mind and killed cats like they were prey. Dark Forest for sure. She just wasn’t stable and whined about the warrior code while breaking it a billion times.

      Quite… a scathing remark of Hollyleaf.
      First of all, killing Ashfur was completely justified. I’m not going to say it was the most morally right thing to do, but regardless, I think she was completely within her rights to do so. Ashfur had literally admitted to indirectly murdering her grandfather and her Clan leader once, was actively blocking the Three’s escape route from the fire, and more or less said he was going to kill them. The only reason he spared them was because he either thought that revealing the truth to the Clan was a more convenient way to hurt Squirrelflight or he was actually stupid enough to believe that it would hurt her more. If I recall correctly, there is an exception to the killing rule in the Warrior code regarding self-defense, which would be easily appliable to Ashfur as he was a clear threat to her in general, having threatened to kill her and being hellbent on making Squirrelflight’s life miserable and by extension, the Three’s.

      Second of all, Hollyleaf didn’t really “attack” Jayfeather. More specifically, she bowled him over and ran away, but I doubt she really had any intention of harming Jayfeather.

      Third of all, yes, Hollyleaf trying to force Leafpool to kill herself wasn’t right, but I will say that unlike Ashfur, whose main motive was simply the fact that Squirrelflight wanted to be just friends with him instead of mates, which is honestly extremely petty in my opinion, Hollyleaf had very good reasons for hating Leafpool. Yes, if I’m being honest, trying to force her to kill herself was not good at all, but again, she had much better reasons than simply “My crush didn’t want to get into an official relationship with me.”

      Finally, the reason she ironically told the Clans the truth anyways was literally stated in the book: “‘It wasn’t the same.’ Lionblaze pressed up against him until Jayfeather felt his brother’s dismay mingling with his own. ‘Hollyleaf couldn’t bear the thought of being a medicine cat’s kit. She couldn’t bear the idea that she was half-Clan. The warrior code meant everything to her, and our birth smashed it to pieces.'” Additionally, keeping the truth hidden wasn’t the only reason why Hollyleaf killed Ashfur. Again, I’m not saying her reaction was completely reasonable, but she still had understandable reasons for her anger. And last thing I’d like to add, when did Hollyleaf ever “kill cats like they were prey?” The only cat she killed was Ashfur, and it was never mentioned if she killed other cats during the Great Battle. I believe I already covered that killing Ashfur was justified.

      With that said, in conclusion, Ashfur deserved the Dark Forest. The excuse that “he loved too much” is honestly extremely petty, and if you recall, the same could be said for Mapleshade, who was entirely motivated by revenge on Appledusk and his kin for rejecting her. On the other hand, Hollyleaf deserved to go to StarClan because she redeemed herself by coming back to the clan, helping them fight against Sol, and letting him go to follow the warrior code. She also fought against the Dark Forest in the Great Battle, not with them, so I don’t think I really need to explain at this point why it would make no sense for her to be in the Dark Forst. Her last moments alive was her saving Ivypool from Hawkfrost and reconciling with her mother, and in the end, I think she redeemed herself by fighting for her Clan one last time.

      That concludes my essay. Again, this is entirely my opinion and take on this, and you are just as entitled to yours as I am. If you chose to read through all this, thank you ^^


    • July 3, 2020 at 12:32 pm

      I completely agree!
      The poor guy gets so much hate!

      Whovian Alert

  11. June 14, 2020 at 11:31 pm

    I’m just going to say… killing somebody’s family member is NOT the correct way to get revenge! I think he would also feel really bad if that plan actually worked, too. And i think he deserves to be in StarClan because he was a good cat at heart.

  12. June 15, 2020 at 11:44 am

    I don’t think Ashfur should be in the dark forest mainly because his actions weren’t because he was malicious or ambitious- they were because he was sad and hurt. He was rejected by the cat he loved and did he get any comfort from anyone? No!
    What’s more, he could have easily killed Holly, Jay and Lion in the end but he didn’t. He let them go.

    Whovian Alert

    • mellowix
      June 15, 2020 at 1:30 pm

      I honestly don’t see how a murder motived by either ambition or pettiness is better they the other. I don’t think the victim would find any solace knowing; they weren’t killed as a small part of a larger plan, rather they were killed to satisfy some small-scale feelings .

      - Mellowix

      • July 3, 2020 at 12:34 pm

        The thing is he’s not really evil. Just driven a bit mad by feelings of grief and rejection- a bit like mapleshade but mapleshade actually embraced those bad feelings and didn’t stop murdering and killing.

        Whovian Alert

        • Goldenfawn
          July 3, 2020 at 2:42 pm

          Many cats have been rejected. Bumblestripe didn’t go off and try to kill Dovewing and her kits. Mapleshade actually lost others. I think Ashfur passed the point of no return once he decided he’d trap them in the fire, or even when he made Firestar lose a life.


    • June 15, 2020 at 3:13 pm

      I respectfully disagree. Ashfur only let them go because he had another way to ruin Squirrelflight’s life and cause her pain. And even though Ashfur was hurt, it doesn’t justify him trying to kill and technically killing Firestar once.

      “I am no Jedi” -Ahsoka Tano

      • July 3, 2020 at 12:34 pm

        I’m not saying it justifies it, I’m saying what he did wasn’t driven by “evilness” like Tigerstar or Hawkfrost. It was driven by sadness and grief.

        Whovian Alert

  13. June 17, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    I dislike Ashfur tho he is definatly not deserving of the dark forest. I think he deserves starclan but should have been guarded untill he could prove his loyalty.

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