Is Ashfur really evil? by Eagleflight and Redblaze

Eagleflight and Redblaze talk about Ashfur and his actions.

Art by baimon2000

Eagleflight and Redblaze debate about whether Ashfur is evil or just misguided.
Redblaze: Hello! I am arguing that Ashfur is not evil.
Eagleflight: Hi everyone! Ashfur is obviously evil so I’m going to convince Redblaze that he is.
Redblaze: So, to start off, threatening to kill someone and actually doing it are two very different things.
Eagleflight: But he still threatened them and the only reason he didn’t was because he was too scared.
Redblaze: I don’t believe that. I think he was driven mad by his rejection and was probably prepared to do it but soon realised that this was not the right course of action.
Eagleflight: Ashfur deserved to be rejected. He’s awful.
Redblaze: How would you feel if the love of your life rejected you?
Eagleflight: I would probably murder them and then get over it.
Redblaze: So you’re saying that he should have murdered Lionblaze, Hollyleaf and Jayfeather?
Eagleflight: No he shouldn’t- that’s why he’s evil because he almost did.
Redblaze: That’s like saying Bramblestar’s evil because he almost helped Hawkfrost kill Firestar.
Eagleflight: Bramblestar is good! Bramblestar is awesome!
Redblaze: Ashfur just went into extreme depression and thought that the only way to get rid of that would be revenge. He realised soon afterwards that it wasn’t. This doesn’t make him evil, it just make him kinda sad.
Eagleflight: Ashfur IS sad.
Redblaze: Sad isn’t evil.
Eagleflight: Yeah but he was mean to Bramblestar- that makes him evil.
Redblaze: Okay then, Squirrelflight is evil too.
Eagleflight: But Squirrelflight’s amazing!
Redblaze: Okay let’s get back to Ashfur. Squirrelflight had no regard for his feelings whatsoever.
Eagleflight: He doesn’t deserve to have feelings. Anyway, Squirrelflight is way better.
Redblaze: We all make mistakes. Ashfur never actually did anything evil. He just threatened to because he felt hurt and scared.
Eagleflight: We all feel hurt and scared sometimes, we need to learn to get over it.
Redblaze: Everybody deals with different feelings in different ways. Just because you react badly to a rejection doesn’t make you evil.
Eagleflight: But he kept that grudge for literally years.
Redblaze: So what if he’s a grudge holder? In the end, he didn’t act on it and that’s what matters.
Eagleflight: So why did he tell Hollyleaf that he would reveal their secret at the gathering?
Redblaze: I’m not sure he was actually going to. If he wanted to why did he tell her? He must have known she would try to stop him. He was probably just angry or scared and wanted her to feel some of that.
Eagleflight: That makes him evil because he wanted Hollyleaf to feel angry.
Redblaze: Wanting someone to understand your emotions is not evil.
Eagleflight: But they’re bad emotions. That’s wanting someone to feel bad.
Redblaze: He didn’t necessarily want her to feel bad. He just wanted her to understand.
Eagleflight: How on Earth can you spell necessarily? I can never spell that word.
(Redblaze is the one typing all of this with input from Eagleflight)
Redblaze: I have to work it out in my head first.
Eagleflight: Oh that makes sense.
Redblaze: Right. All I’m saying is Ashfur is not evil. He just wanted understanding and happiness but was denied it.
Eagleflight: There were plenty of cats who he could’ve been happy with but he chose to take revenge instead.
Redblaze: I think Ashfur believed that Squirrelflight was the only cat for him and that he’d never find someone else like her.
Eagleflight: He’s really narrow minded.
Redblaze: He wasn’t narrow minded. He was just crazy with pain and grief. Seeing Lionblaze, Hollyleaf and Jayfeather just made it worse because he thought of the kits HE could have had with Squirrelflight.
Eagleflight: If he had kits with Squirrelflight, I would rip the books apart.
Redblaze: That’s quite strong.
Eagleflight: Ashfur was prepared to kill Lionblaze, Hollyleaf and Jayfeather. That’s too much.
Redblaze: I don’t think he was though. He didn’t in the end did he? I think part of him considered it and he convinced himself that he was going to. But, he wasn’t evil enough to actually do it.
Eagleflight: That’s not goodness. He was just too scared.
Redblaze: In that fire scene did he seem scared?
Eagleflight: He must have been good at hiding his emotions.
Redblaze: I don’t think he was if he threatened to kill them.
Eagleflight: He was putting on a brave face.
Redblaze: Now you’re saying that he believed he was doing the right thing.
Eagleflight: Well don’t evil people believe they’re doing the right thing all the time when they’re doing something evil.
Redblaze: Not necessarily. Ashfur didn’t do this for an evil reason like power. He just did it because he was suffering and he thought this was the way to stop that suffering.
Eagleflight: Isn’t taking it out on other cats evil?
Redblaze: We all take our anger out on others. This doesn’t make us evil.
Eagleflight: I think I’m evil and I take my anger out on other people.
Redblaze: I’ve never actually seen you angry.
Eagleflight: It takes a lot to make me absolutely mad.
Redblaze: Shall we end it here then?
Eagleflight: Yep bye everyone!
Redblaze: Post in the comments your feedback and who you think you agree with!

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  • Brambleclaw actually redeemed himself, unlike Ashfur who literally threathened squirrelflight and almost killed her adopted children all because he rejected her, He even killed firestar and wanted to destroy Squirrelflight’s life, So yeah. I think he’s evil. You cant make me think otherwise,

      • he is TOTALLY evil. we have TONS of PROOF that he is the I M P O S T E R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

        • Ashfur is not evil! He’s misjudged, and i believe he’s the imposter too, but I still love him. Think about it, he was a great warrior, fought and hunted for his clan. His only mistake was loving too much.

          • But Tigerstar WANTED too much
            And Darkstripe OBEYED too much.
            Brokenstar also WANTED too much.
            And yea, you get what I mean.

  • I like Ashfur’s depth a a character. He’s one of those cats who, to truly understand, you need to read between the lines, which is always a gold star in my book. But just because I like him doesn’t mean that his actions can be excused. Murder is never the answer, and no matter how heartbroken Ashfur was, he was a responsible adult. He should have kept his emotions in check.

    And like Goldenfawn said, Ashfur’s poor mental state at the time can be understood, but not excused.

  • well i don´t think hes evil yes he did threaten to kill others but thats his anger hurt and grief speaking also hollyleaf KILLED him he only threatend to kill. and no that dosn´t mean what he did is ok or right but hes not evil.

    • He did actively paricipate in the murder of Firestar. Firestar lost a life, and Ashfur fully intended for him to lose all his lives. If he had been a regular warrior, he’d be fully dead.

        • It was revealed during the fire scene that Ashfur was the Thunderclan cat who conspired with Hawkfrost to lead Firestar to the fox trap so that Brambleclaw could kill him. Firestar lost a life to this. If he weren’t leader, he’d have been permanently dead. As such, Ashfur was an accomplice to murder and guilty of conspiracy to commit the murder of his Clan leader.

  • Ha! Yes both of you! (tho i agree with Aquila 😛 )

    • (Yesss and yay you’re watching merlin!!!!!!! 😀😀😀)

        • Oooh you have?! Do you like her? 😀

          Have you met Gwaine as well?

          Oh and have I told you that I’ve met the master!!! 😀

          • I like Morgause as a villain, but I’m kinda hoping she’s not just using Morgana as a pawn! She seems kinda cutthroat and I hope she’s really feeling that sisterly bond or else Morgana’s in trouble. 😛

            I’ve met Gwaine!! He’s kinda cute and I like his personality. I’d like to see more of him! Unfortunately he’s also Merlin’s friend which makes him my enemy-

            ffffff i feel like i have more to say but im tired and i can’t put it into words yet XD

            YOU HAVE? Sooo what do you think of himmmm? :3

            • I really liked morgause!!! That makes you on season 3 then, right? I’m trying to think back to then so I don’t accidentally spoil anything 😛

              Gwaine is amazing!!!!!!!!!!! He’s my third favourite character, after Agravaine and Morgana! His personality is great! He’s like the Donna of Merlin. 😛 You really don’t like Merlin, do you? 😛

              The Master is awesome!!!!! SO much better than the Doctor! He’s so great like he is fine with locking up the doctor in that room for a whole year and he comes in and randomly plays music and does interviews XD why did he have to be defeated?? :(((( Is the drum beat in his head a condition? I think I’ve heard of a condition like that before.

              • doifjiodfgjdfog merlin sucks im sorry but i will never rest my case of trying to change the show title

                haha i never thought of him as like donna! i can kinda see it! 😛

                YES. finally somebody appreciates the master! he’s the best!! The presentation of him and the way he is was seriously one of my favorite villains. and nope, the heartbeat is not a condition he was born with! At eight years old, every Galifreyan must look into a reality-tearing portal for a bit to get a better sense of themselves. The drum beat was sent to him for reasons which you will find out later. >:D

                • I didn’t like Merlin but I found Arthur and Mordred WAY worse!!! 😛

                  The master is such a laid back villain and I love the way he always makes the doctor look bad and he’s just generally amazing!!! Oh oof I thought he had tinnitus (I think that’s how it’s spelt…) But I don’t want to find out later, I want to know now!!! 😛 Perhaps I will go look it up, but right now I’m too lazy to XD

                  • Okay okay, so the reason the Master was cursed with this is because not everybody on Gallifrey died when the Doctor destroyed it. They were actually kind of trapped in one moment of time? It’s hard to explain. But anyway they sent that signal through the portal to manipulate the Master from an early age so that he would one day be drawn back to it and free them.

                    [spoiler: things don’t go as planned for them and the master isn’t anybody’s pawnnn]

                    • Oooh so a time paradox? Like the whole bad wolf thing? 😀 oh yesss I can imagine the master not actually wanting to free the rest of the time lords 😛

                    • oh yeah if i remember correctly as soon as he finds out its their fault, he tries to kill somebody XD and no, he has no interest in freeing his tormentors 😛

                    • That makes sense! Well to be fair, it wasn’t very nice of the timelords to give him a constant drum beat in his head, it’s enough to drive anyone insane. 😛 Why didn’t they give the drum beat to the doctor? He would have been much more willing to save them 😛

                    • Well, I think there was a specific reason they picked the Master, but its been years and I can’t recall XD And to be fair, the Doctor and Master were both eight years old at the time, so it’s not like the Doctor’s savior qualities were around. The drumbeat probably would’ve driven him to madness the same way it affected the Master. 😛 also i don’t think anybody who got stuck with the drumbeat would want to save the people who gave them it XD

                    • But the doctor was called the doctor, so his whole name hints at him saving people and the master’s name sounds more like he doesn’t really care about people and just wants to control. 😛 I can think of a few annoyingly perfect fictional characters who are so perfect that they would still save the people who had given them the drumbeat! 😛
                      I asked my mum what timelord name she thought I would have and she said ‘the apprentice’ which I’m fine with as long as I can be the master’s apprentice. 😛 What timelord name would you have?

                    • The doctor picked that name because he wanted to help people, like a doctor. :3 The master picked that name because he wanted to be a great leader. Not a *bad* leader, just a powerful one. I think I would want to be ‘The Ambassador’, because ambassadors can be diplomatic and can help people without having to fight on the front lines or anything. Ambassadors can also serve as other jobs when not being diplomatic, so it provides a wide range. :3

                    • That’s unfortunate for the master because he definitely turned out as more of the controlling type. 😛
                      Oooh the ambassador is cool, you could be an ambassador for earth on another planet XD or gallifrey on earth for that matter!

    • yesss exactly!!!

      And Cinderpelt didn’t try to cook Leafpool and Squirrelflight! 😛

  • Ashfur’s a really complicated villain. Also he got into StarClan so I would guess he regrets his decisions. I feel like I could forgive him for killing Firestar (not really kill but you know what I mean) cause Hawkfrost manipulated him, and a lot of good cats got manipulated by Hawkfrost like Ivypool. But then him planning to kill Squirrelflight’s kits years after that happened…it does seem a bit evil. I feel like he’s a gray area a bit like Snape I guess. But then in Veil of Shadows it’s kind of obvious it’s Ashfur (unless it’s someone who wants them to thinks it’s Ashfur) is the one possessing Bramblestar but why would he want to punish the “code breakers” though? He only wanted to hurt Squrrielflight and the cats close to her. Doesn’t really make sense :/

  • Ashfur got into StarClan…so not evil? In Squrrielflight’s Hope it’s stated that Ashfur and Hollytail don’t really hold a grudge so I guess he was sorry? I just view him as a grey area like Snape. But then in Veil of Shadows he is obviously the one possessing Bramblestar, unless it’s someone who want’s him to think he’s Ashfur. But it seems really out of character honestly, I’m just going that it’s someone pretending to be Bramblestar, but then it didn’t work so there pretending to be Ashfur pretending to be Bramblestar. It just makes more sense to me, because even if he wanted to hurt Squirrelflight, he didn’t need to punish the “codebreakers”. Honestly this new series has me confuzzled.

  • Ashfur is evil. He possessed Bramblestar. I know it isn’t confirmed yet, but Ashfur is on the cover of The Broken Code book 5, called The Place of No Stars. So ye, that’s what I think

  • I think he’s evil, but not for any of the reasons provided. I don’t think he’s evil for his feelings or his grudges, or his bitter actions towards others. He attempted murder on multiple cats and didn’t regret it, or redeem himself. Not getting over Squirrelflight is perfectly fine, but he acted out in a horrible way.

  • When I’m upset or angry I sometimes threaten my brother when he annoys me Ashfur just kind of maybe have gone over the top but still didn’t do anything it still is wrong to trap squirrel flights kits in fire but he kind of has a lot of depression I kind of feel a little bit of that sometimes to but nothing can change the fact that he’s my favorite 😐😝. Also I do not have a website and please don’t message me

    • Depression is not an excuse for attempted murder.

      As somebody who’s dealt with recurring depression, I can guarantee you that it is not an excuse. People with depression do not automatically experience homicidal thoughts or attempt to kill people. The stigma that comes with mental health can only be worsened by an attempted equation between depression and murder. Thanks. ^^

  • Well, Eagleflight’s argument was not too great and a bit messy, so I’d say Redblaze had a better argument. But I’m really stubborn and still think Ashfur is evil.

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