Warriors vs. Survivors: Pros and Cons by MoonTabby

MoonTabby compares the Warriors series with the Survivors series.

Hello again from your average Survivors fangirl! I’m MoonTabby, excited to bring you another article today. The topic is very near and dear to my heart, as I’ve been a HUGE Survivors enthusiast for a couple years now. In fact, I read the entire series before I ever picked up Warriors! So I’d love to go on and on about it. But as this is a Warrior Cats blog, devoted to all you cat people, I have to incorporate the Warriors series somewhere in here, right? 😛

That’s why I’ll be comparing these two awesome series today. They’re pretty similar, both being about feral animals, but they each still have their own flair that may draw different people to one or the other, depending on their interests. (Such as, Encanto fans may like Survivors due to there being a character named Bruno in there. 🙂 Just a thought.) I’ll be judging each set based on their content, whether good or bad. Some of my reactions are just solely my opinions, but we all agree to disagree if we want! I may have mixed feelings or entirely dislike something, but what’s best is if you like it 🙂

Even if you haven’t read Survivors yet, I hope this article will inspire you to read it! All the books are so good and you won’t be disappointed!

*SPOILERS AHEAD, TAKE CAUTION:*
As there’s so much to discuss, I’ve thrown in a lot of spoilers here and there. But I’ve tried hard not to give any major spoilers from later Warriors and Survivors arcs! If there’s something I feel is necessary to include, like a death scene, I will alert you before continuing!

Background

First, let me give you a basic summary of both series. I should hope you know the first book of Warriors at least… but… if you have a Rusty (yes, pun intended!) memory like mine, I may need to give you a boost. 😉 Here’s the official summary from book 1, Into the Wild:

“For generations, four Clans of wild cats have shared the forest according to the laws laid down by their ancestors. But the warrior code has been threatened, and the ThunderClan cats are in grave danger. The sinister ShadowClan grows stronger every day. Noble warriors are dying—and some deaths are more mysterious than others. In the midst of this turmoil appears an ordinary housecat named Rusty… who may turn out to be the bravest warrior of them all.”
Warrior Cats Official Website

Now let me show you a bit about Survivors!!! 🐕‍🦺🐶🐩🐕🐾🦴 Book 1, The Empty City:

“The time has come for dogs to rule the wild! Discover another action-packed animal fantasy series from the #1 nationally bestselling author of Warriors The first book in the Survivors series is full of “wild and wonderful adventure” (Kirkus Reviews, starred review) that will thrill fans of Spirit Animals and Wings of Fire. Lucky has always been a Lone Dog, roaming the busy city streets and relying on his instincts. Then the Big Growl strikes—a devastating earthquake that changes Lucky’s world forever. For the first time, he must team up with a Pack, a group of former Leashed Dogs who have been separated from their owners. Lucky’s vivid point of view and the pulse-pounding action make for the start of an addictive series that shows readers the world through the eyes of dogs.”
Warrior Cats Official Website

And there you go! Hope that brief background of Survivors helped you understand it better.

Books

That’s a pretty broad subject: books? Yes, because I want to show the scope of how big these two series are. You might think, “Oh my gosh, Warrior Cats has SO many books!! It must be awesome!” Eh, not necessarily… Sure, it may have 50+ installments, but that doesn’t mean it has any quality. The first several arcs were pretty good, but the whole series has been going downhill, in my opinion. Every new book that comes out, there’s some major typo, controversy, or a reused plot and it’s all being repeated! As I’ll discuss on my next point, there are so many mistakes – why? It’s all due to there being way too many books.

It’s like any TV show. Let me use Bunk’d and Raven’s Home for example, two popular Disney Channel sitcoms. I’ve been watching them for years and I love their original seasons! But I’m not the only one who thinks that the latest seasons have been totally dragging the whole show down. A lot of people agree with that. (But don’t mind my stupid opinion if you do like it!) To prove my point: Sometimes stopping a show or series of books while they’re still good quality is the best thing to do. Bring it to a halt while it’s on a high note. While fans may be disappointed, at least they have the previous episodes / books, that are still good quality, to rewatch or reread.

But when you keep dragging the books on, they lose their spark. The quality dies and, yes, too many cats equal a bunch of errors and meaningless characters. In the end, they’re only doing it for money.

Survivors, however, is a small series compared to Warriors. But it has an appeal and magic that the latest Warriors books don’t have! In Survivors, there are 12 main books: 6 for the first arc, 6 for The Gathering Darkness arc; and 3 novellas (which can be bought in one paperback book). I’m incredibly disappointed that The Gathering Darkness finishes the entire series, but you know what? I’m also glad the authors ended it, because I’d be scared to see what they’d be doing to any following books. I’d rather have my small collection of high-quality, intriguing books than a huge series of meaningless, repeated plotlines.

If you want more Warriors or Survivors books but want more originality, may I suggest fanfiction? You can write your own, OR check out other people’s fanfics! Just be careful and use good judgement to make sure that it’s appropriate. I’m sure you can find plenty of unique stories written by fellow BlogClanners.

Fillers

This is a similar topic that could’ve gone under “Books”, but there was enough there anyway that this calls for its own section. Fillers are the books that hold no big importance to the overall movement of the plot; they’re only there to provide an extra object on a shelf. They may play a small part, but not one that we can remember easily. Can you tell me everything that happened in AVoS: Darkest Night? Can you tell me what happened in PoT: Dark River? I only remember the middle and end parts to that book, particularly the big events that occured down in the caves. Other than that? Not much. But with The Prophecies Begin arc, while I haven’t reread the whole thing in a long time, I can still remember most major events of what happened in each book! Funny how the best books are the ones we remember the most, huh?

Now with Survivors: There. Are. No. Fillers! Every single book has a part to play, and that’s exactly how a good series should be. You might say, “But aren’t most of The Gathering Darkness books just fillers?” Nope! They may be slow-paced sometimes and leave you on the edge of your seat to find out the mystery, but they’re definitely NOT fillers. Each book is important in helping Storm reach her goal of finding the traitor in the Pack; each book provides some new clue or conflict she must resolve. That’s the great thing about Survivors: every book, every scene, and even every death has a part to play. Yes, seeing our beloved characters die is soooo sad, but they always play a role in moving the story along.

Typos

Warriors has an infinite amount of mistakes! It’s frustrating! Dovewing’s eyes are green, no blue, no yellow; Mapleshade is said to have a ginger-and-white pelt when she’s actually a tortoiseshell; so-and-so is the wrong cat’s apprentice. THIS is the unfortunate result of when you have (1) too many books, and (2) too many authors. When it comes to background cats, I’m sure mistakes are to be made, but I’m irritated that the authors can’t just lay out a simple guide for their own protagonists, front and center. I know it’s because there are so many authors, but how about they just: call a meeting, lay down the rules to follow when writing, and determine some basic storylines, characters appearances, etc. Okay? Ok.

Survivors has its own typos, yes, but not as many as Warriors! Maybe I think this because there are less books in Survivors, but the only big typos I’ve noticed are that Moon’s eyes are often confused as blue or brown. On the cover of The Endless Lake, you can see that she has blue eyes; but on the cover of her novella, Moon’s Choice, it’s the same picture of her but with brown eyes. Well, to be honest, they also keep several dogs in the Pack Lists even after they’re long dead, and keep mixing up Fuzz and Nose’s gender. Now that I think about it, there’s probably more, but not to the overwhelming extent of Warriors.

Realism

Some people like realistic stories, or as realistic as they can be when you’re dealing with talking animals! Some people want a story that’s out-of-this-world. Me? I like a story that stays pretty close to the real world and what we think would go on among talking feral animals. It’s fiction, yes, but at some point you’ve got to distinguish fantasy from reality.

Warriors can be very unrealistic – not so much in the first arc, but in the later arcs. The Prophecy Begins was really cool – it drew us in as a fiction book, but didn’t give the cats impossible superpowers or dark other-worlds to battle. It was just… ordinary cats living in the wild. Along with some StarClan visions and prophecies, but yeah, other than that, pretty simple! And who says simple is a bad thing? Then… it started becoming crazy. The New Prophecy arc began the movement of far-fetched ideas. Like, PLEASE tell why they felt the need to make a badger speak cat, fox, and StarClan knows what else??! Couldn’t they have brought the questing cats to oh, call me crazy, maybe another animal in their own species? Then the following arcs gave the Three these fantastical powers which, actually, I don’t mind much, because while it did stray more from the traditional, realistic plot, it was still interesting and cool for a while! But where I roll my eyes is when they somehow had to take it to the next level – bringing angry Dark Forest spirits down and having them battle real, solid cats, sending cats into the Dark Forest and StarClan, giving some dead cat the ability the take over a living body, etc. Okay, interesting as it is, it’s gotten ridiculous in my opinion. It’s gotten away from just being about normal cats in a normal world, to being about cats hopping back and forth among the real world AND StarClan AND the Dark Forest AND any other spirit world they want to throw in on a whim. Erin Hunter books have been some of the best series of wild animals living in nature. If we wanted magic or other dimensions, couldn’t we read something else like Harry Potter or Land of Stories? Why doesn’t Warriors also throw in a Hogwarts School for Catcraft and Wizardry or have a cat flying around on a broomstick? 😆 (I’m gonna have that morbid image stuck in my head for eternity…) Interesting as those genres are, not everything has to be super unrealistic to appeal to readers.

Now in Survivors, it’s far more realistic in that these are simply ordinary dogs in the wild. They have religion and prophecies, yes, but that’s part of every Erin Hunter series! (And that’s a topic I’ll be discussing at some point soon) The plot was clearly a lot more thought out. I feel like this team actually CARED more about what went into this. I believe it had some different writers apart from Warriors, though I think it had Kate Cary too? The whole series is (realistically) packed with adventure while not making the reader squirm and cringe at a rushed plot. (I’m lookin’ at you, Into the Wild!)

Characters

Warrior Cats has a TON of cats (plus one talking badger!). I’m all for having a wide range of characters, but it’s gotten absolutely ridiculous. One arc after the other, a hundred new characters that you can’t even remember the names to. I miss the days of The Prophecy Begins, when every cat in little ThunderClan had some sort of personality. Is it so wrong to want a character who’s not utterly boring?

Survivor Dogs, on the other hand, has a good selection of characters without becoming tiresome. I want to estimate that there are probably less than 100 dogs in the whole series, compared to, hmm, let me think, over a 1,000 cats in Warriors?! (Yes, that’s right! Over a 1,000!) You might think that such a small cast of dogs is kind of boring compared to Warriors, but actually, it’s not! It feels just right.

The cast of Survivors characters is also pretty diverse, from physical appearance to personality. To me, all cats look the same 😛 so Warriors doesn’t strike me as having a lot of diverse characters in terms of appearance. We haven’t even seen a cat with floppy ears, have we, even though you have a breed like the Scottish Fold whose ears are curled in. Sure, you have ginger coats, black fur, tabby pelts, spotted patterns, and more, but generally most cats are around the same size and body type, maybe only with slight variations.

But with dogs – ohhhhh, boy, do you have a ton of breeds! Big dogs, small dogs, medium dogs, dogs with pointy ears, floppy ears, thin tails, feathery tails, and MORE. And within a breed you may have several different colors and patterns too! (I could go on all day about how great dogs are, but I’ll keep it at that.)

However, I’ll give both series applause for including disabled characters, from being deaf, blind, or lame! Those types of characters are definitely refreshing. Warriors has cats like Jayfeather, Snowkit, and Briarlight, and Survivors has dogs like Twitch and Thorn who both have a missing leg.

As for the characters’ personalities, the two series have a realistic variation. Yes, you have the protagonist, the antagonists, and the background characters, who may be known for their cheerfulness, temper, wisdom, or skill. In Survivors, there are a lot of realistic and fun personalities. And because of the smaller cast of dogs, you notice them more than you would with Warriors. Take this part of a paragraph from The Empty City, which gives an interesting description of the new dogs’ characteristics and appearances:

Martha was much taller than Lucky, and Sunshine didn’t even reach up as far as her knee joint … Bella talked a lot, and she was kind but brusque with Sunshine … The collie-dog, Mickey, seemed intelligent, and Bruno looked like he could handle himself in a fight … And Daisy seemed brave, and scrappy, and fiesty, but she was barely out of puppyhood …

page 90

This is so interesting right off the bat! Instead of a bunch of blah characters who all look and act the same, Erin Hunter gives us a vivid, descriptive first impression at these new characters who have just been introduced in the last chapter or so. Martha’s a big old giant, Sunshine’s a wee little tot next to her, Bella’s a chatterbox, Mickey appears to be rather smart, Bruno looks like he’s quite a tough guy, and Daisy seems like a tiny pup with a big heart!

*pauses* What’s that? Oh, yes, there IS a character named Bruno from Survivors. Okay, okay, we hear you Encanto fans vibing to “We Don’t Talk About Bruno”! 😉

Villains

This is also related to characters. There are plenty of villains in Warriors: Tigerstar I, Scourge, Hawkfrost, Ashfur, Mapleshade, Brokenstar, One Eye, Darktail… the list goes on! And for the most part, they’re so interesting and cool! I won’t argue with that. But one thing I’m disappointed with is that Mapleshade is our only major female villain. I have no problem with male villains – they still do an excellent job of being, well, evil! But I’d like to add just maybe a couple more girl villains? That so much to ask? And when I was reading OotS for the first time, I was like, “Yes! Is Ivypool gonna become a villain? That would be SO cool!” She didn’t – fortunately, I guess – but we fans are still waiting and waiting for another female villain. *sigh*

Let’s compare types of characters, shall we? Over the span of probably 100 books, Warriors has had only one major female villain: Mapleshade. Maybe one other minor girl villain introduced in TBC, but not that we ever got to see her in action! Versus Survivors: the smaller series, which has had TWO female villains in just two arcs! Both of whom are very cool, very evil gals. Maybe even more developed than Mapleshade! Still… tiny number, right? But comparing that with Warriors, which do you think is the better ratio? Also add a male villain – the half-wolf Alpha – and that’s three of them! In just 12 books!

Stereotypes

Uh, Moon? Why are you bringing up stereotypes? These are animals. Not exactly… First, let me say (in my opinion) that sometimes – sometimes – including stereotypes can be useful to progress a story or characters, if done in the right way. The one I’m thinking of is in Survivors: the stereotype that Doberman Pinschers, called Fierce Dogs, are all, well, fierce and evil and ruthless! But we see this isn’t entirely true. Yes, Blade and almost all of her Pack of Fierce Dogs are that way, but not all of them. There’s the three pups that Lucky and Mickey rescued: Grunt, Wiggle, and Storm, known back then as Lick. (Soooo cute! 🥰) Even though Grunt later turned evil, Wiggle was so sweet and adorable and wouldn’t hurt a fly! And Lick grew up into Storm, a loyal dog to the Wild Pack – even having a whole arc devoted to her! Then Arrow, another Fierce Dog, joined the Wild Pack as well. These characters are used to prove the point that not all members of a certain group, race, etc. should be classified into one personality or mindset. THIS is a good plot to shed light on a bad stereotype. We shouldn’t avoid discussing stereotypes or discrimination; rather, we should learn from them and work to overcome them. I’ve always known certain dog breeds have a bad rep – pitbulls, Doberman Pinschers, even German Shepherds – so I’m super glad Survivors included this stereotype and worked to introduce good, strong characters to break that boundary.

Warriors isn’t free of stereotypes either, but these ones usually are never used to prove a point. Particularly gender stereotyping. Most background queens and she-cats fall into a certain type: soft-spoken, kind, ditzy or bubbly, submissive, etc. Yes, a lot of girls are like this (to a certain extent, myself included), but not all are like that. Maybe this stereotype is meant to highlight the stronger she-cats, maybe? Like Squirrelflight and Leopardstar and Ivypool? But they should really add some more realistic she-cats, even if they’re not the protagonists, who have more relatable personalities, not just one set type. Keep some of those soft-spoken females, yes, because there ARE people like that, but also add a lot more of the complete opposite! The same should be done with toms. More personality, people, more realistic variation! Though I guess the authors can’t do a whole lot, at least in the latest books, because this is where we come back around to the issue of TOO MANY CATS!

Religion

As you know, every Erin Hunter series has to have some form of religion. I love that it varies from animal to animal! I’m a Christian, and though I know that these fictional animal religions are just that – fiction – I think that religion gives deeper meaning and background to any book. Even if the authors aren’t religious, I think that including the topic is a great way to introduce readers to the real world, where many people like myself have a faith, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.

The cats in Warriors believe in two places, StarClan and the Dark Forest, which is essentially like Heaven and Hell. Now, really, the structure of StarClan is very basic and easy to go to. It’s a very simple idea, just lumping a bunch of dead cats together. There’s not really a whole lot of lore behind it, and the concept is a bit bland, in my opinion. I think the authors could’ve done a little more with this. It’s a good idea… it’s just so blah and needs more story and meaning.

It’s also confusing that spirit cats can die AGAIN. Cats like Spottedleaf and, well, you-know-who from ALitM. See, I’m no expert on dying, as I’m, you know, still alive… 😛 …but I’m 99% sure no spirit can be destroyed. Where would their mind and soul go, just… float around in darkness forever? That’s how I’ve always tried to think of it, but I can’t because it’s so confusing. You can’t just… get rid of that spirit energy. It can’t just disappear like it was never there. This idea in the books makes absolutely no sense and it’s just a pathetic end to our beloved characters.

In Survivors, the dogs have a polytheistic (worshipping several gods) religion. Unlike Warriors, in which the cats merely revere their ancestors and don’t have a supreme god, the Survivor dogs actually worship many “gods”. There are many Spirit Dogs, which include the Sky Dogs, Earth Dog, Sun Dog, Moon Dog, River Dog, Lightning, Wind Dogs, and more. Each Spirit Dog or group of Spirit Dogs rule over some part of nature, obviously part of their name. There is also a rich lore associated with the spirits that is passed down. For instance, the dogs reason that thunder is what happens when the Sky Dogs and Lightning play together in the sky; because they’re so big and rough, they make a lot of noise in the form of thunder. I think this is really cool and cute as well, because I’ve seen how dogs play together. The big ones particularly can be very rough and wrestle, run around, pounce, bark, and any other kind of doggy play you can imagine.

This brings me to: prophecies. Warriors prophecies vary all the time and are always vague. In Survivors, they only have one major prophecy: that one day, the earth will shake and dogs will fight each other to the death, in the terrible Storm of Dogs – the end of time. 💀 SOOOO COOL! I like to draw similarities between books and real life, and I couldn’t help but notice that this “end time” is very much like an aspect of Christianity. Even if you are not a Christian, I’d like to talk real quick about our end time story. We believe that God will return someday in the Rapture to save His chosen people; and when the believers have been taken up to Heaven, a time of great chaos and destruction will reign on Earth. This is similar to the Storm of Dogs, although the Christian end time is truly the definite end – that is, before God comes back to establish a new heaven on Earth! – while in Survivors, life keeps going on even after the end battles.

Families

Real life cats and dogs usually have large litters; they both can have an average from 1 to 12 kittens or puppies, though dogs can have a lot more. With cats, 4 is the average amount, and with dogs, 5 or 6 is the average. But since these books are fictional, it would be confusing and sudden to spring 6 new characters on the reader all at once! In Warriors, you usually see about 2 or 3 kits in an average litter – pretty reasonable. But in Survivors, the biggest litter that we see is four pups in arc 2 (To avoid spoilers, I won’t say the mother’s name) though it’s likely that from Lucky’s memories in the first-arc prologues that he and his sister Bella came from a much larger litter. Now, it’s possible for dogs to have small litters from 1 to 2 pups, but they are rare and the puppies could have development or behavioral issues from being in such a tiny litter. I still wish Erin Hunter would include larger litters in the books, but again, this is a fictional series.

Another topic that brings me to is: pregnant dogs/cats and mothers. Yes, Warriors does have a lot of queens, but it’s just… too much. Too many pregnant she-cats coming in, book after book, to the point that it isn’t even interesting anymore. It’s just taken for granted that there will always be a queen to provide kits for the Clan, without understanding just how much pain these she-cats go through. It’s a far longer and more straining process than a few months in the nursery, a quick birth that’s done in a poof, then boom, they’re back on their feet immediately. Most queens in the series are lost in the background behind the hustle and bustle of the Clan. But they’ve hardly been seen in depth since the early books. That said, I applaud Bluestar (Bluefur at the time), Silverstream, and Daisy as great examples of strong queens. We saw labor through Bluefur’s eyes; saw the risks of pregnancy when Silverstream died birthing her kits; and got an appreciation for the work of nursery she-cats, whether pregnant or not, because of Daisy, who cared for generations of mothers and kits.

Let’s look at Survivors now! Like I’ve said before, it’s a small series compared to Warriors, and with far fewer characters. So you can’t expect there to be many pregnant dogs or mothers. But on the bright side, they don’t get lost in the crowd, so we can appreciate them all the more! The first Mother Dog (as they’re called in the series) we see is Lucky’s, revealed through his eyes in the prologues of the first arc. Lucky and Bella are definitely confirmed to be sheltie-retriever mixes, so their Mother Dog’s breed was one or the other. She is shown to be wise and gentle, and skillfully teaches her pups the lore of the Spirit Dogs. The next mother, Moon, is seen in book 2, A Hidden Enemy! (No, I didn’t get my name from her, sorry 🐶) But she’s still one of my favorites! She’s so wise, protective, and respected among the Pack. She thinks with her head, not living to please others because of what they might think of her. She also handles grief (as well as anyone can 😢) for the sake of her family and Pack. You don’t see her bawling and using her pain as an excuse to ditch her duties, unlike what Sparkpelt did in Warriors.

To avoid second arc spoilers, I won’t tell you the names of the later two Mother Dogs, except that they portray their role pretty well. They both have natural protective, maternal instincts and are some great, well-known characters!

Gore Levels

*Warning for brief mentions of gore ahead* Okay, well, if you read Warriors, then you should already be prepared for some gore. But Survivors is just a smidge bit more violent in some places… When I read the series for the first time, I was pretty shocked at the more graphic details they included in a fight scene in the fourth book, The Broken Path, which included ripping off a dog’s jaw. (First of all, I was also younger and new to the violent world of animals) The same method is incorporated in a few other books later on. After rereading the series several times, I’m not as bothered by those scenes anymore, but I still remember that it was kind of disturbing when I first saw it. Gore will affect different readers in different ways, so for some, this kind of stuff will be no problem for them. But for some more sensitive readers like me, this could send a shudder up your spine. Age may also play a role in what a kid can handle. You might have a very mature ten-year-old and then a teenager who cringes at the slightest of violence. There’s nothing wrong with either one! But if you’ve read Warriors and are fine with the content, then Survivors ain’t that different. The worst of the gore is brief anyway.



Phew, I think this has been my longest article yet! Thanks a ton of you’ve read it all the way through. I’m just so obsessed with Erin Hunter books! To conclude, I’d say (in my totally biased opinion) that Survivors is a better series. Again, I repeat, totally biased! Warriors is an amazing series as well – it’s no surprise so many people love it so passionately!

I still definitely encourage you to read Survivor Dogs. It’s more thought-out, adventurous, and leaves you with a deep connection to your favorite characters. Maybe you’ll love the giant Fiery for his wisdom; maybe you’ll like the cool, dark, villainous side of Blade or Alpha; or maybe you’ll like Storm for being so brave and misunderstood! 😍 (She’s my favorite!)

Also don’t forget to check out the Survivors Discussion Page! Give it some love! 💗 Not sure what order to read in or want to ask a Survivors-related question? That’s your spot!

Thank you sooo much for reading! Leave your thoughts down in the comments.

~ MoonTabby, signing off!

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17 comments

  • Nice article! There is only one big thing that I disagree with you. In the article you said:

    Can you tell me everything that happened in AVoS: Darkest Night? Can you tell me what happened in PoT: Dark River? I only remember the middle and end parts to that book, particularly the big events that occured down in the caves. Other than that? Not much. But with The Prophecies Begin arc, while I haven’t reread the whole thing in a long time, I can still remember most major events of what happened in each book! Funny how the best books are the ones we remember the most, huh?

    Now with Survivors: There. Are. No. Fillers! Every single book has a part to play, and that’s exactly how a good series should be. You might say, “But aren’t most of The Gathering Darkness books just fillers?” Nope! They may be slow-paced sometimes and leave you on the edge of your seat to find out the mystery, but they’re definitely NOT fillers.

    I think those books are filler. In your own words, they are slow-paced. So are the “filler” books in Warrior Cats. But since you like one series more than the other, one will be filler and one will just be slow-paced. Not trying to sound rude, but I think that is a bias in the article.

    But who knows maybe I’m wrong?

  • I disagree with you on many aspects but i to am christian and like to connect warrior cats to reality.I personally think The Great Battle was somewhat like the armagedon that is mentioned in the bible..eg The main bad guy being “Destroyed from existence”I agree there are gaps in quality but the series in general is really good!!