Need a break from the hubbub of the rest of the blog? Or perhaps you just want a quiet page to discuss Warriors in depth. In any case, feel free to unwind in the Elders’ Den!
[a very fluffy grey cat with thick fur around its neck, long whiskers, and yellow eyes stares into the camera]
What exactly is this page, then? It’s a place to discuss, in detail, particular aspects of the Warriors series – to pick apart ideas and themes that perhaps either get overlooked elsewhere or require a nuanced perspective. And more broadly, it’s a quiet refuge away from the bustle of the rest of the blog!
If there is a more serious subject you’d like to discuss within the Warriors universe, remember to remain respectful of what people are saying and to handle the topics in question with the necessary care and respect. Does this mean this is a page solely for discussing controversial topics? Of course not, but rather if they appear, the mods ask that everyone involved remain calm and thoughtful – should a discussion verge too far into argument territory, we may step in and put an end to it.
[a ginger-and-white tabby cat squeezes its eyes closed as it licks its pawpad]
If you’re looking for a general place to talk about Warriors but you feel like your comment doesn’t quite fit the Elder’s Den, check out the Sunning Patch!
More aro/ace cats in Warriors, per favore. Either does not want to have kits but maybe a mate, or just flat out isn’t in a ship. And not because they are a med-cat. Could be a main character. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
i think there should be a lot more lgbtq+ representation in general, and that includes aroace cats, so i agree! mousefur’s aroace i believe though, so at least there’s one
I agree with this! ^^ Also I headcanon Hollyleaf as aroace 🙂
Yeah, cool! I really like Hollyleaf, so I’ll just zap her with my almighty acespec vision (commences zapping my book collection with beams of light)
As an aro who relates strongly to Hollyleaf, I love projecting my aromanticism onto her
I thought it’d be cool to share with you guys this cool aro Hollyleaf drawing I found ^^ Unfortunately not sure who the artist is 🙁 But still!
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6d/ae/c0/6daec06ae8f19773fbbe5692c38df5e2.jpg
Woah pretty! The design is so cool 😀
Glad you think so! ^^
Unrelated but I love the color palette of the aro flag 😛
Yeah, it’s so pleasing 😛 I also love the color palette of the ace flag, like that purple with the neutral colors is just perfect 😛
Love it!
wow that’s gorgeous oml
Agreed! I headcanon Shadowstar as aroace too!
I know! Shadowstar is so aroace! And some part of me likes Leafpool as aroace and Mousefur as bi!
1000% agree. I went through all the pov characters a while ago and out of all 50 of them, only 7 have never had a mate or romantic interest, and (especially in the more recent books) cats have been paired up in ways that don’t make a lot of sense. We need a cool main character who’s single by choice.
PRAISE STARCLAN ON THAT 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Well we know for sure there will never be any official queer characters in Warriors, cause that would mean that in some countries the books couldn’t be sold, but I agree we need more single cats haha
I’m pretty sure authors can make statements of lgbtq+ representation (Raven X Barley and Tall X Jake) but just not blankly state that in the books, unfortunately.
Unrelated but I keep thinking you’re Lilypaw/tail because of your pfp 😭😭😭
omg yes😭 as someone on the aroace spectrum I agree so much, and I also think that we should have much more lgbtq+ rep in warriors in general! (however I believe talljake and ravenbarley have been confirmed as canon so that’s neat! :D) I believe mousefur might be aroace, and lots of people headcanon hollyleaf and shadowstar as aro and/or ace :DD
wait i never thought about shadowstar being aroace but now i see it
*adds to long list of lgbtqia+ headcanons*
(bit late but whatever)
I headcanon hollyleaf as ace and shadowstar as aro and mousefur is aroace just based off their relationships with other characters
yessssss!!!!
I think that’s a good idea, though personally I enjoy reading the romantic parts of the books! ^^
Not all cats have to be aroace, just a few, there would still be romance parts if the Erins included them
definitely! i think there should be more lgbtqia+ in warriors in general, but that definitely includes aro/ace. i also personally headcanon mousefur, hollyleaf, and sleekwhisker as aroace.
Didn’t Sleekwhisker have a crush on Darktail?
thats just fanon, it hasn’t been confirmed.
Nah, it’s just a (bad in my opinion :PP) fan ship, lesbian Sleekwhisker supremacy :PP
Kate Cary, one of the authors, is “pretty sure she did”, though she “can’t clearly remember”.
YES, there should be aro/ace cats in warriors
I agree! We need more aroace characters in Warriors, or just single characters in general. Almost every Warriors character I can think of has a mate, or had a mate. As part of the aro-spectrum, I definitely think that there needs to be more aroace representation, and just more LGBTQIA+ representation in general.
Idk might be a Sunning Patch question but what do you guys think of NightxSun? Honestly, in my opinion, it was a bit rushed, and felt like a copy of BristlexRoot. Do y’all like it/wanna go into deeper discussion lol? 😛
I think that it was a tab bit rushed but their support and loyalty to each other after they officially became mates really makes it a good ship. They both went through the clan-switching trials, watched each other put themselves in danger on multiple occasions, and helped their partner through grief and hardship. Bonus: they both have a functional personality with flaws and advantages. Overall I love this ship for reasons named above and I think that they both found more of themselves by being together
I really like NightSun. I think Nightheart and Sunbeam complimented each other’s personalities and had great development, even if Nightheart did rush it a bit and use it as an excuse to get out of ThunderClan. They ultimately built a strong relationship and kept it through many familial hardships, showing the value of their connection.
Yeah, I do think NightSun complimented each other well, but honestly, I feel like Sunbeam fell in love really randomly. One moment, she’s practically rejecting Nightheart, and the next, they’re mates. I mean, Sunbeam didn’t even really want Nightheart to be in ShadowClan, and I feel like Nightheart completely disregarded Sunbeam’s feelings :pp
This kinda ruined the ship for me ngl but hehe just my opinion :DD
i agree. i don’t ship night x sun for a few reasons and this is one of them.
I like them, but they’re far from my favorite ship. For example, they were originally meant to break up according to the story team, and you can see that in Shadow when very suddenly Sunbeam joins Nightheart in ThunderClan. However, it played out nicely, and while it does feel similar to Bristlefrost and Rootspring’s relationship, it had its own antics that made it unique and I’m glad they stayed together for the rest of the arc.
I do believe it was too rushed, like one second they are on the quest the next second Nightheart joined ShadowClan. I think they were good for each other and overall liked this ship.
Yeah, the ship was kinda cute towards the end, I just don’t like how they fell in love so… fast? Nightheart really disregarded Sunbean (intentional lol)’s feelings by just randomly popping in ShadowClan one day 😛
Oml I LOVE Nigthsun!!! Personally I think it’s better than Bristleroot (as a certified Bristleroot hater) I don’t think it moved that fast and they really look out for each other!
Also I’m still VERY disappointed that Moonpaw wasn’t their kit, I love Bayshine, but I was sadddddd 🙁
Ya honestly I thought Moonpaw was their kit at first bc I skipped over the allegiances lol 😛 (and I’m not certified whatsoever in cat genetics but honestly her pelt color{s} would’ve made more sense coming from Sun and Night…? {please correct me if I’m wrong TwT}) (I should probably reread TBC to see Bristleroot’s relationship again lol)
Yeah it would make sense coming from Moonpaw, as if she had the right chromosomes she would get tortie fur from her parents, though it does still make sense for her being a Baythrift kit cuz the genetics would still work out that way. (I’m a cat genetics nerd lolz)
*laughs evilly in haven’t read asc*
*laughs evilly alongside her in haven’t read asc*
lol *laughs evilly in has read asc*
I really liked it! NIghtSun was so sweet and developed amazingly! It was a bit too rushed tho
Hehe good point!! :DD Ye, honestly I would have found it more interesting if they “broke up” :33 That would’ve made a huge difference, since practically every cat gets a mate in the recent arcs *sobs*
For BristlexRoot I’m pretty sure the authors were just thinking, “Let’s make these shippable cats that are, like, really in love” but left out why they were in love. It didn’t really feel like they planned much more than both cats had a somewhat crush on each other and that snowballs into deep love. I think for SunxNight they planned it out a bit more. Though, I do agree it feels rushed. Especially how Nightheart first acted like Rootspring in the first books. Still, they got a lot more development than BristlexRoot (even though I still really like that ship anyway).
Yeah, good point!! :DD I think they originally planned from them to-uh- have a “cat break up” but decided not to, and you can sorta see that in the earlier books where Sunbeam didn’t really want Nightheart in ShadowClan. :)) Personally, I think a break up or whatever you’d like to call it would have been interesting, since *sudden old-timey accent* all these young’uns nowadays all get them mates!
I haven’t read up to their arc haha
oh haha :DD
hey y’all, wanted to start a huge debate, so here we are… hopefully this won’t dissolve into everyone agreeing because that’s boring…
I wrote an article about over over analyzing the warrior code, but since I have zero patience (I’m so sorry moddos 🙁 noooo) I’m posting a piece of it here, because why not?
One.
*deep breath* The first clause isn’t too bad, actually. Defend all the Clans, even with your life? Makes sense.
Oh who am I kidding?
WHY ARE YOU BEING SO VAGUE?! Like, seriously! Be more specific, will you? By defending the Clans, are you forbidding attacking it? If you attack it, do you have to pull a weird thing and start defending against yourself? What if the danger is unforeseeable? What if by doing a perfectly normal, warrior-code abiding thing, you open the door to unknown dangers? Please.
And it’s not like this kind of thing is impossible either! Behold, the American legal system: To charge someone with negligence, you must satisfy five claims.
The defendant owes a duty to be a reasonably prudent person.
That duty was breached.
There were damages to person or property
The defendant’s negligence caused the damages
It was foreseeable for the defendant that their negligence would cause the damages.
It’s a lot more complicated than that, with stuff like negligence per se (however you spell it) and more, but in a book about talking cats, you don’t have to go into that in depth.
Just change “damages” to “code breaks” or “harming the Clan” and boom, you have this perfect legal system for the first code. It’s not that hard.
I could go on and on about just the first sentence, but let’s move on so that I can show you just how bad this whole thing is. Next phrase. Your first loyalty is to your Clan. Yay, something unproblematic. It’s still vague, so I think this is literally just a filler sentence that doesn’t carry any actual weight.
All who follow the code are your allies. DING DING FILLER SENTENCE ALERT. Okay, I understand the occasional filler sentence here or there, but this? Moving on.
Each clan is proud and independent, blah blah blah. Wait. Each Clan must ensure that no Clan falls. Way to request the impossible, thanks guys! Allow me to explain. What if we were trapped in some kind of situation where only one Clan of the two is going to survive, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Which Clan to pick? At the same time you’re trying to be loyal to your Clan AND make sure to keep every Clan around.
However, the above scenario is highly unlikely, so I’ll give it a pass. For now. I don’t really like the “traditions that must be respected” clause. I see where it’s coming from, but something about it just doesn’t feel right. What if a RiverClan cat hates fish? I’ll pass it.
(I’ll post 2 later)
edit: speedy dodo spotted!
My brain ain’t braining 😭
I think the simple answer is, the warrior code is not about strict words and bending the rules; it’s about morals. A warrior is supposed to be honorable and make decisions that are good for the clan. Cause the reason you shouldn’t kill isn’t because “oh but the warrior code says you can’t kill”; the real reason is, killing isn’t a morally okay thing to do, and all warriors who are honorable enough to follow the code are also honorable enough not to kill, code or not.
So, in short: yes, the warrior code is vague and has a lot of holes. But this doesn’t matter, because an honorable warrior follows it naturally, and the truly “evil” cats don’t care about the code anyway.
Anyone here remember Gremlin and Snow, I love them so much!!!!!
I remember Gremlin, the BloodClan she-cat in Graystripe’s Vow, but I don’t know who Snow is.
IIRC Snow was a Sister who appeared in Squirrelflight’s Hope and beyond.
Same ^^
same here lol, Gremlin was a great character!
gremlinnnnnn i thought gremlin was cool
Never heard of them lol
I haven’t read about either but Gremlin sounds like a really nice girl /j
*random core memory* omg yess!!! :’) just remembered who gremlin is, love her :33
I remember both of them. I like Gremlin, and Snow is an okay character, I don’t really have an opinion on him.
I was thinking about writing and submitting a blog post regarding why I’m personally grateful for Bristlefrost’s death (WAIT: PLEASE read the rest of my comment before dropping to your knees and begging Starclan why anyone would feel that way).
As a scene, it completely took me off guard and genuinely left me stunned as I was reading it, and I think it is ridiculously important as an almost allegorical representation of the real-life human experiences of death and grief. Now, standard deaths throughout the series are far from meaningless, of course: like, just because a character goes on to live on as a spirit in Starclan, it doesn’t mean their sudden and uncontrollable absence would be anything short of traumatic for their loved ones. But the fact that when Bristlefrost died, she was entirely and permanently removed from the lives of the cats around her – there was something so frighteningly real about it, because that really is how human beings, on a fundamental biological level, experience the death of a loved one: especially when it comes without warning. I 110% understand that some fans wanted/still want her to be revealed as living on in some tangible, non-abstract manner (super Starclan when??? /lh), but I think, personally, the fact that she wasn’t, and likely will not be, is the biggest part of why her death was so powerfully, beautifully heart-wrenching. In a similar regard, I don’t think another character dying in her stead, even in the same way, would have been quite as impactful – we wouldn’t have known them as intimately, and thus wouldn’t have truly been able to resonate with the grief of their loved ones (at least, not as intensely as in the case of Bristlefrost).
I’m just worried that some cats may not understand that I’m not considering her death on a very literal level here, especially based off some past blog posts 😭 If I was an actual clan cat and you asked me “should Bristlefrost have died” I would obviously scream and roll on the ground and screech “no no no no no” in reply: but I’m looking at this from a purely subtextual standpoint – like, not what her death actually was, but what it connotates, represents, and communicates about the human experience 🥲 So I’m making a comment here to see if anyone feels the same way, rather than a whole blog post.
Just to reiterate, one more time… I! LOVE! BRISTLEFROST!!! I! DO NOT! ACTUALLY! WISH! SHE! DIED! IN! A! LITERAL! SENSE!!! 😭😭😭/lh /gen
i completely agree, her death was so meaningful and moving and beautiful and aaa and i don’t like how so many ppl are just like “bring bristlefrost back!!” we love bristle girl but like we also love that she died
Agreed. Bringing her back would ruin the well-crafted moment that was her death, and make the whole thing feel meaningless in hindsight.
I actually really hate Bristlefrost lol :PP
I agree with you Fallowsy
Lowkey same-
*raises hand slowly*
okay I don’t usually do grudges but how dare she do that to ashy
WHAT!?!
As a Bristlefrost lover I am highly offended /lh
I agree. Bristlefrost’s death was a tragedy, but a very good one. It showed the true impact of Ashfur’s return and how evil he really was. I like Bristlefrost but I was glad to see the series make such a dark moment with her permanent death.
I definitely agree with you! I feel like her death fell a little flat because of Ivypool’s Heart (Won’t specify because spoilers) But her death was so well written and while I, with most of the fandom, am sad about her death, I’m personally happy with the way it played out, and I’m not sure how I would have felt if she stayed alive or even died and ascended to StarClan.
Totally agreed!! I think character deaths in general are important for the plot in a story, even when it’s the most loved characters in the story!
I miss ashfur… this is why I’ve procrastinated reading alitm for so long. I’ll never have another fire scene. back to my overdue copy of Long shadows I guess
I also totally see your logic. if you ask me they should just scrap the whole StarClan concept in general and just let us have cat drama
I agree, her death was extremely meaningful and made me cry. Just the sheer weight of the fact that she never got to StarClan, never got a future with Rootspring, never got to have kits (if she wanted them) is crushing
Totally agree! Of course her death was a tragedy, and of course if, like you said, I was her clanmate, I would be devastated. But it has a strong and important message that I think is very meaningful. It would’ve been a lot more uninteresting if she had just gone to starclan or something.
I just finished re-reading A Dangerous Path.
Bluestar’s death shook me even though I knew it was coming.
Just the fact that the first time she got to share tongues with her kits was while she was dying on the side of the river. The fact that she never got to watch them grow into warriors, the fact that she never got to care for them as a mother, the fact that she had to give them away because Thistleclaw had to be a horrible cat. She had to give away her kits to save her Clan, all because of one cat.
This was one of the saddest things in the series in my opinion.
Thoughts?
It’s a powerful scene. It’s a classic redemption scene. She recovered her true self and died a true leader and warrior, not the bitter, paranoid cat she had become. She sacrificed herself to save Fireheart/star and her clan. There is sadness but also beauty.
I second this!
I love Bluestar ssssssssmmmmm! Anywho, yes her death is really depressing. My best friend read A Dangerous Path for the 1st time recently and she said even tho she already predicted it, it took her a whole week for the death to sink in
Yeah it was sad ;-;
might be a sunning patch question, but I’m thinking about writing an article on Cat Lawsuits. Basically, I forced my mom to give me law info (she’s in law school)
now I know several types of torts. Negligence is so fun and so frustrating at the same time lol. also a little bit of criminal law, like the whole murder 1/murder 2/ involuntary ms/voluntary ms kind of thing.
so basically, what is a scene in warriors where a cat could sue another cat, and then I can try to see the odds of the case getting through. I barely know anything about law and I’m doing this lol. btw vert if you’re reading this, you do this kind of thing right? help?
Unrelated but my mom studied law too! Your idea seems cool and interesting!
i’d definitely read that 😀
I would legitimately read a warrior cats court drama, or just them lawyering up and going at it lol.
Omg that would be awesome ToT… Graystripe with his lil’ judge wig
Cool idea! I’d love to read that.
Great idea 😀 For suggestions, maybe Brambleberry sues Rainflower for neglecting Crookedkit? Nonetheless, I would definitely read this!
cool idea! ill try it
Interesting idea. It crossed my mind when we were discussing the “a warrior does not need to kill…” rule that there were no “law cats” to interpret the Code. If there were to be trials in the clans, who would serve as judges? How would juries be selected? It raises lots of questions.
It would be quite interesting to see the cats evolve Clan customs into more modern governmental/general structures. I don’t think it would change Warriors enthusiasts’ credulity much, as the cats already have organized religion and laws.
Moth Flight waltzes in “Did someone say my name?”
seriously though she was running the whole squirrelflight trial along with some other cats. I don’t remember which
I think maybe there’s just a random jury and the lawyers is a StarClan cat who wants to defend the the creator of the code.
idk but that would be interesting
I’d read that 😛
oh did somebody call my name??? pre-law vert to the rescue!
now lawsuits, at their base with all of that legal mumbo-jumbo stripped away is literally you just going to the court with some grievances against a people/organization/business/cat and saying, ‘hey, they screwed me over in a way that I think is legally actionable and I want something for that’. In Warriors probably the most common type of hypothetical lawsuit would be civil litigation cases, which do not involve criminal charges and are more so in the realm of stuff like personal injury (which falls under tort law), defamation/libel, breach of contract, and property disputes. Basically some cat does something bad, and another cat is like ‘you absolute menace. I’m taking you to court.’
in the great legal hellscape of warrior cats there’s no actual court system per se, just leaders making snap decisions, starclan throwing out random nonsense verdicts (cough cough Leafpool DF cough cough) and the occasional public execution via battle. But if there was a formalized court, here’s what we’d probably see:
1) Personal Injury (Tort Law) – “You literally mauled me”
This is your standard negligence or intentional harm case. If a cat gets injured because of another cat’s recklessness, they might have a claim. Take for example Graystripe v. Fireheart for gross negligence after that oopsie moment back in Fire and Ice (?) where Fireheart shoves him into the river during a border skirmish.
Claim: Fireheart pushed me into rapid water, I could’ve died!
Defense: well… technically I saved your life later on, so that evens out?
Verdict: Probably dismissed due to bias towards protagonists.
2) Defamation – “You RUINED My Reputation!”
A cat spreads lies about another cat, and now their entire reputation is down the drain. Classic libel or slander case. For example, Fireheart v. Darkstripe for defamation of character.
Claim: He called me a ‘kittypet’ in front of the whole Clan, which was deeply offensive and materially harmed my credibility as a warrior.
Defense: That wasn’t defamation, that was true! Kittypet.
Verdict: Probably thrown out because truth is an absolute defense to defamation. Surprising, I know.
3) Property Disputes – “Sunningrocks is ours!”
Cats fight over borders constantly, which means if we had a modern legal system, the Clans would have endless land disputes. Everybody knows about the dispute over Sunningrocks- what if RiverClan sued ThunderClan?
Claim: That land has been ours since River Ripple! Those pesky forest grubs need to get their dirty paws away!
Defense: …but before the river changed course we couldn’t get to it, and now we can, so…
Verdict: RiverClan wins on paper but we all know ThunderClan won’t care.
4) Negligence “which is exactly what it sounds like”
I’ll make up a hypothetical here. Say Lionblaze, with his invincible reasoning, decides to practice battle moves way too close to the medicine cats den, resulting in a total disaster where Jayfeather trips over herbs and lands in a thorn bush, nearly impaling himself. Naturally, Jayfeather sues his brother.
Claim: Lionblaze did not exercise the proper level of care that a reasonable (reasonable Lionblaze? give me a break) cat would under similar circumstances, resulting in significant bodily harm to ME! Do you know how annoying it is to pick out thorns?!
Defense: uh… uh… well I didn’t mean for him to trip and he could’ve moved…
Verdict: Lionblaze is forced to clean up the medicine cat’s den for the next moon and is not allowed to train near the medicine cat’s den EVER AGAIN.
How do you think it would go if Crookedstar sued Rainflower for being a negligent parent?
I’m not terribly well-versed in like these types of civil cases regarding family but Crookedstar would probably win easily- although I don’t think for neglect. Neglect is generally when you don’t fulfill like needs for a child (i.e. food, shelter, medical care, etc.) and technically speaking Crookedstar never lacked any of these aspects. However, he does have a solid case for emotional and psychological abuse (essentially signaling to a child that their needs/feelings are not meaningful, which is an accurate descriptor of Rainflower as a “mother”). Additionally, his little running away to live as a barn cat stunt is significant evidence, and I imagine there are quite a few RiverClan cats who could support him with their testimony.
Here’s a problem with the idea of warrior cats bringing lawsuits: what would a successful plaintiff obtain as compensation? Humans sue for money or other property in compensation for damages. Cats have neither. They don’t use money or any equivalent, and all property (the camp, the territory) is owned collectively by the clan. Even prey doesn’t belong to the individuals who catch it, but to the clan. I suppose you could have something like a restraining order to prevent a cat from repeating some sanctioned behavior, but nothing like compensatory or punitive damages.
I do agree that compensatory measures would be basically nil, but I think punitive action would be quite commonplace. Stuff like being forced to do so and so for the cat that you wronged (for example, in the jay v. lion case Lionblaze is forced to clean the medicine cat’s den for a certain period of time) or something along those lines.
I think a cat could still be required to hunt for another, or clean up their bedding, or do something similar to try to compensate for what they did.
oh wow these are good thanks vert!
hold on I’m pretty good at negligence let me try this one:
Duty? well duh Lionblaze was literally doing something, and that was not what a reasonable Lionblaze would do.
Breach? well duh
Damages? jayjay got thorns
actual cause? but-for lionblaze breach his duty, jayjay wouldn’t have thorns!
proximate cause? it was probably foreseeable that something like that would happen.
lion probably can’t defend for contributory negligence cuz all jayjay did was walk out of the den.
therefore, unless I missed something. yes
Bluepaw sues Hawkheart over Moonflower’s death, or Thistleclaw sues Bluefur for Snowfur’s death
Note: I understand that this is a sensitive topic. I understand if this comment gets mod edited due to the implications it might bring up.
Mallowpaw brought up something on the Sunning Patch page that I think could be discussed further here- Goosefeather. Most particularly this sentence:
It makes me wonder… how do you think Warriors handles mental health and what are your thoughts on the way it is perceived as a fandom?
Goosefeather, as well as his niece Bluestar, are both prime examples of this. Both are generally hated for the times they were clearly not mentally okay, which would lead to disasters and deaths. For Goosefeather, it was his sister Moonflower- in Bluestar’s case, it was Swiftpaw’s death and Brightpaw’s mauling of the face, which Bluestar used for her personal war with StarClan by remaining her Lostface and confining her to the Elders Den.
Similarly, Hollyleaf’s peak villain arc was caused by mental illness from the shock that she was born from the breaking of two codes she so fiercely lived by- the warrior code and the medicine cat code. This caused her to kill Ashfur, reveal her secrets to everyone at a Gathering in a rage, nearly poison Leafpool, and running into the tunnels in order to confine there for several moons.
In later arcs, we see Ashfur in the Broken Code who has clearly become delusional from his mental state crashing, and Ivypool after Bristlefrost’s death and her SE having a major arc where she must move past her grief.
Do you think that in these kinds of situations, Warriors handled the states of these characters well? Do you believe these characters deserve to be hated for the terrible decisions they made, or you do think they are overhated? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the matter. 🙂
as a Goosefeather, bluestar, hollyleaf, and ashfur fan…. yes they’re overhated.
I think that Warriors does a decent job at showing that, outside of extreme cases such as Ashfur’s or Mapleshade’s where genuine malevolence was key in their actions, mental illness is not a fault of its possessor- simply a fault of circumstances around them, and being mentally ill does not make one a bad person. This is because, despite their actions during their mental illness, cats like Bluestar and Goosefeather were ultimately not criminalized and ended up in StarClan, with Bluestar recovering from her plight.
However, one thing that is never really cured or suggested to be improved is the Clans’ lack of mental health support. Keep in mind that these cats are indubitably anthropomorphic enough to have a functional mental health support system, as they have organized religion and culture. When a cat starts to go through a bout of hardship in their life, there’s rarely anyone to help them outside of sympathetic family/friends. No cat has any professional skills to treat mental illnesses or help cats through difficult times.
This results in cats with no one to help them going down dark paths that they don’t look back from, especially if they are without family or other cats who truly care about them. A prime example of this would be Ashfur. As Crystalmist mentioned a few pages back, Ashfur’s derailment of the mind was partially exacerbated by the Clans not having a mental support system. Ashfur was such a severe example of mental illness because he didn’t even have family to help him, and he was young and vulnerable to the hardships of life. His parents were both dead, and of his three siblings only one was alive- Ferncloud. And she was a full-time queen in the nursery, effectively living a completely different life from him. Perhaps Ashfur felt even more lonely, seeing Ferncloud living happily with Dustpelt and her litany of kits, with the whole Clan by her side. Meanwhile, Ashfur had no family outside of her and the she-cat he loved loved someone else.
With no one to help him and only Ferncloud by his side, Ashfur’s state of mind worsened into him becoming the villain he was in Power of Three and especially The Broken Code. But all this could’ve been stopped if there had been someone to help him from the very start; some sort of cat therapist. Bluestar would’ve been less stressed by Tigerclaw’s betrayal, and Swiftpaw would’ve lived. Goosefeather would’ve been able to properly decide if what he was seeing was real or not. But none of those cats had someone to help them. Clearly, despite their focus on survival in nature, the cats need someone to help them out in the dimension of the mind, but don’t.
To conclude, I do not in any way think that cats who were not fully clear in the mind when making their actions should be judged. It would largely benefit the Clans if cats going through hardships had someone to confide in.
we need cat therapists. im going to write a fanfic about cat therapists. maybe.
also how did you remember what i said a few pages back I don’t remember what I said a few pages back.
anyways, I agree completely. we need some kind of support system. as jayfeather mentioned once, “i’m a medicine cat. if you want sympathy, go to the nursery”
but the nursery doesn’t provide sympathy either, now does it? warriors are just expected to deal with their emotions and not have any outside support. this is reminiscent of like, i dunno, the middle ages or something
“oh but they’re just cats”
they’re cats with a literal cult, a complicated political system and a ridiculous amount of nationalism. whereas i may call them “stupid,” that is stupid in human standards. the fact that human standards are even involved here shows something.
not going to go into that, but a lot of very depressing things have happened in the real world due to lack of mental health support.
and look at all these cats. simple problem. oh, if they can’t spend prey on “emotional support/therapy cats” then just TRAIN THE MEDICINE CATS. seriously, med cats are ALREADY expected to be sweet and supportive.
just add that to the job description and we have solved the entire ashfur problem.
tho knowing him he’d just obsess over his therapist so forget i said that.
I think you covered the topic very thoroughly, Mallow, and I agree with everything you say there. It is a particularly difficult situation when a mentally ill cat is in a position of authority or respect (Bluestar, Goosefeather) and there is no one in a position to tell them that they’re making bad decisions and need to step back. Under the revised code, Bluestar might have been forced to retire (which would have been sad for her, but better for the clan), but there is still no process for dealing with a mentally ill medicine cat. Maybe the medicine cats collectively could have the power to have one of their number declared incompetent, as Goosefeather clearly was when he planned the attack on WindClan.
I completely agree with this! And like Visionsight said, I do believe therapists should be incorporated in Warrior Cats. Maybe mediators could have therapist elements instead of just settling affairs between different Clans, especially if a mediator ends up in every clan like medicine cats. But who knows.
Everyone, who’s your favourite warrior cat?
Mine is Squirrelflight/star (she was so, so feisty as an apprentice and when she became a warrior she was caring, but still did what she thought was right)
Ivypool! I loved her arc in OotS and her personality stayed consistent even outside her POV. While we didn’t get to see much of her relationship with Fernsong, it was cute, and her grief was dealt with well in her Super Edition. Her becoming deputy was not just because she was a fan favorite. She was also one of the best for the job- she’s competent, skilled, and brave.
Nightheart. I loved his development and can relate to him a lot.
Ivypool!
Crowfeather! (aka: Mr. Gotta catch em all)
He’s just everything I need in a character. Mean, loving, depressed, complexity, humor, and uhhhh being underrated 👍
Crowfeather!! I love him because he’s cool and misunderstood and overhated :DD
I don’t really have a single favorite character. There are a lot of engaging characters in the different story arcs. If I did have to pick just one, it would be Graystripe. He has a good heart. He makes mistakes but he never acts from a desire for power. There is no hate in him. He often risks his own safety and freedom to help others.
Leafstar. She always cared for her Clan and is definitely one of the best leaders. She helped build and stabilize an entire Clan while having her own family and personal life. When we get her pov in the books, she’s always shown helping her Clan and watching over her Clanmates. It’s really kind of sad how her cats wanted to turn against her after all she did for them, even if she was old. Also, I feel she’s very much underrated. I hope she finds happiness for the rest of her life and in StarClan. She deserves it.
hmm, probably yellowfang.
Cinderpelt!
She was so cute and bubbly as an apprentice, and she did not give up when her leg got run over, which was amazing, and then she still became an important part of the Clan even though her leg didn’t really work anymore, and her relationship with Yellowfang was amazing, and she was an amazing medicine cat, and her death was SO SAD.
I should probably stop using the word amazing 😛
I loveeee side characters and Fringewhisker has been my favorite ever since she swapped clans to be with Spireclaw! I love how she was one of the first to clan-swap, willingly let Berryheart walk over her just to be with her love and I think she should get sooo much more love!
Shadowstar/Tall Shadow should also get more love in my opinion, I feel like people don’t really notice her skill in strategy and how she always put others first and spent so long leading and doing all she could for her clan! (ignore my headcanon that Hollyleaf was her reincarnation)
Oh my gosh, Tall Shadow and Hollyleaf give the same vibe! I think that ShadowClan was, honestly, such a *terrible* legacy for Tall Shadow. She wasn’t evil, she didn’t steal kits, she didn’t raid other camps or demand territory or drive other Clans out or poison food or leave a kit wailing in a fox trap. She was just a chill guy (ignore the reference). I wish ShadowClan had more of a RiverClan-y vibe — calm, rational, intelligent, and chill hunters at night! P.S. Speaking of vibes, SkyClan should have *totally* been the murder-y Clan… You know. Clear Sky. Plus, it would have made Cloudstar’s Journey so much more of a moral argument. ~ Nix
IVYPOOL!!!!!!
Ivypool!
ashfur. not gonna go into details why.
oh, you meant one that wasn’t a murderer? sorry, whitestorm or somethin
Star Flower probably. She had untapped potential as an antagonist. All the pieces are there. Unlike most starring antagonists in Warriors, she’s not obviously sinister. She knows how to use her charms and plays the long game, rather then being overtly evil. She can be somewhat influential and convincing. I mean, at least for a time, she got Skystar to change. And Thunder’s experience with her taught him valuable lessons about trust and deceit and humanized him. That’s part of what makes a good antagonist. They humanize the hero and reveal flaws. And there’s a ton that could’ve been explored regarding her relationship with her father and what life with him was like. There’s plenty of ground to give her a proper motive there.
And it would explain why she got with Skystar. She was using him to get into a position of power and eventually intended to take over the Clans. In fact, I would’ve loved a reveal that she was pulling the strings behind the scenes, not One-Eye, and she had merely found a way to use him just as she used Thunder and now Skystar.
But nope, none of that was executed to its full potential. Once she got with Skystar she was somewhat reduced to a generic Queen with a kind gentle personality. I will always grieve for what could’ve been. She deserved an arc that was entirely hers, and to be more then a chess piece in another cats arc.
THIS. I NEED THIS AU NOW
The AU? Gold? Australia? Austria? …?
In fanfiction terminology, AU refers to alternate-universe fanfiction, which takes place in a universe separate from the source material. These fanfictions usually involve actual events and characters in the series doing things different or happening in a different way.
it stands for alternate universe ^^ /info
It means “Alternate Universe” 😛
What the others said ^^^
Like “What if Firestar actually liked waffles?” but more serious 😛
I love ur pfp!!!
squirrelstar is my favorite character in the whole series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ooh, Squirrelstar is a feisty choice! Personally, I love Hollyleaf. I was fascinated by her obsession with the warrior code, her lack of romantic interest for her entire childhood, her friendship with Willowshine, her ever-so *relatable* reason to be a medicine cat — because everyone thought it was cool — and all the swapping and murdering and rescuing fox cubs and sacrificing her life! ~ Nix
Yeah!!! I love Hollyleaf too!
The fox cub scene was so sweet! 💕
I have a few cats I love, but my favorite is Violetshine. I liked watching her grow up through AVoS, and find herself and what she believed was right, and I just think she’s an amazing character.
Hawkfrost and Ashfur are tied for my favorites! I just really like villains :3
(hmm also my very prominent Hawkash shipping may be tied into this…)
omg hawkash fr
YESS I HAVE FOUND SOMEONE WHO SHARES MY INSIGHTS :0000
you did indeed!!!
not me struggling with shipping ashy with literally anyone because i ship him with myself too hard
NO CRYS NO- /lh
Hollyleaf!!!
Deadfoot (I was obsessed with him even before reading Tallstar’s Revenge.) Not counting random obsessions, it’s probably Cloudtail
My favourite warrior cats book is Midnight of TNP (I LOVE travelling books for some reason……..)
Midnight was soooooo good! I also love traveling books in general unlike most of the fandom. This made me like the whole of TNP
I love traveling books too, Firewhisper! Midnight gave us a never-before peek into the Tribe of Rushing Water, which was fresh and cool — I won’t forget about the separating duties from birth, the sharing prey between each bite, or the applying mud on fur to blend in with the mountains! ~ Nix
I thought Moonrise was the one with The Tribe of Rushing Water? /nm
I liked Midnight. The journey was interesting to read, and everyone’s feelings during the journey was interesting as well. However, I’m not a big fan of TNP in general, so I don’t love the book.
attack your own opinions, ill start:
ashfur is a very boring cat with a very unoriginal backstory. Seriously? rejection? What were you thinking? darktail, Sol, and even Hawkfrost had way better motives.
also, he hacked StarClan in a way that we had no advance warning was going to happen. this I still consider one of the biggest plot holes in warrior cats. his arc was extremely boring, as it was overly supernatural and I want a return to TPB (no I don’t)
murder is unexcusable, even if he did have a good backstory, which he didn’t, and no amount of trauma is going to make that okay
Nightheart was clearly pretty inclined to seek attention. In Thunder, one of the reasons he gives himself to go on the quest to the Cats of the Park was because it would put him in the spotlight- quite the selfish trait, especially when being around a desperate, wounded apprentice.
Ooh, I kinda did this already with Mapleshade a page or two back, but I’m feeling a bit Hollyleaf today…
Hollyleaf is overrated.
A lot of people enjoy Hollyleaf because of her villain arc in the last two books of PoT. First by killing Ashfur, then by revealing everything at the Gathering and running into the tunnels in a fit of rage. But this wasn’t a great villain arc. First off, everything felt rushed and there was no hint of her villainy in between chapters in Sunrise, or before the fire scene. Her strictness and almost obsession with the warrior code makes this sudden murder nearly out of character.
Her development with Fallen Leaves in the former’s novella wasn’t the best in the series, and it didn’t help that both her brothers already romantic interests with ghosts just like her (Jayfeather was in love with the long gone Half Moon, while Lionblaze is mates with Cinderheart, who is reincarnated from a ghost). When Hollyleaf made her return in the latter half of OotS, her personality was shattered and she became a shadow of who she was before, serving to the plot only battle tactics when ThunderClan fought WindClan due to Sol, and eventually died a book later.
There was so much potential for her if she had survived longer, or if the story had played out differently, but it didn’t. Not to mention, her apprenticeship was overall boring in comparison to her brothers, especially Jayfeather, with his blindness, importance to the plot, and unique personally. I don’t get why people like her so much.
(I don’t entirely agree with this but just writing this makes me like Hollyleaf less lol)
Ivypool was boring and murderous, she was also dumb, she actually liked training in the Dark Forest and her actions are not excusable. I hated OOTS because of her stupidity.
(No this is a total lie, I don’t even know how I wrote it)
ClearBright SUCKS! I wasn’t ever a huge Skystar fan, but how he allowed her to lure the hawks. . . That may have started his whole character arc.
Okay…
Ravenpaw is actually a very bad character. I mean, first, he’s very inconsistent. In Into The Wild, he was thid jumpy guy who hated battles, but in Redtail’s Debt, he suddenly doesn’t want to leave the fight over Sunningrocks. So Ravenpaw is clearly written poorly. His personality in Into The Wild is also kind of cliché, you’ll find the sweet, jumpy side character everywhere. And after he joined Barley in the barn, he just lost all personality and became very boring. It was also a bummer that he was never canonically said to be Barley’s mate.
Aaaaah that was hard I still love u Ravenpaw <3333😭
I disagree about several of the points. For once, I think Ravenpaw was implied to not always be so jumpy, or at least want to be in battles more. But after he witnessed Tigerclaw murdering Redtail, he became jumpy due to knowing that a powerful, well-liked adult cat very capable of murder wanted him dead. I also don’t think he lost all personality upon moving to the barn- he just grew out of his jumpiness when guaranteed his safety, and with a close friend.
Hello world.
Hello and welcome to BlogClan! This page is for talking about Warriors, so if you want to introduce yourself, you can do so on the Introductions Page (under the New Member tab) /nm
Hi Mudkit! This page is for in-depth talking about Warrior Cats. This comment would be better suited for the Introduce Yourself Page or the BlogClan Tavern ^^ 🙂 /nm