Need a break from the hubbub of the rest of the blog? Or perhaps you just want a quiet page to discuss Warriors in depth. In any case, feel free to unwind in the Elders’ Den!

[a very fluffy grey cat with thick fur around its neck, long whiskers, and yellow eyes stares into the camera]
What exactly is this page, then? It’s a place to discuss, in detail, particular aspects of the Warriors series – to pick apart ideas and themes that perhaps either get overlooked elsewhere or require a nuanced perspective. And more broadly, it’s a quiet refuge away from the bustle of the rest of the blog!
If there is a more serious subject you’d like to discuss within the Warriors universe, remember to remain respectful of what people are saying and to handle the topics in question with the necessary care and respect. Does this mean this is a page solely for discussing controversial topics? Of course not, but rather if they appear, the mods ask that everyone involved remain calm and thoughtful – should a discussion verge too far into argument territory, we may step in and put an end to it.

[a ginger-and-white tabby cat squeezes its eyes closed as it licks its pawpad]
If you’re looking for a general place to talk about Warriors but you feel like your comment doesn’t quite fit the Elder’s Den, check out the Sunning Patch!
getting a little bored by all of the Ashfur talk so I’ll play some devil’s advocate!! respond with a claim (preferably not about our murderous impostor squirrelflight-obsessed friend) and I’ll try my best to go and defend that claim.
purdy is good prove me wrong /lh
hmmm if I had to argue this I’d probably point out how he’s mostly a system qb who relies a lot on his team, and while there’s nothing inherently wrong with that I really don’t see him becoming a standout QB like Tom Brady and Mahomes or even somebody like Jared Goff.
oh you meant the cat?? that’s pretty easy- if my memory doesn’t fail me I’m pretty sure he got like the entire TNP questing group lost when he “helped” them through the Twolegplace. Also, he defends Sol.
On a more deeper level, and I hate to say this but he’s a pretty costly liability to ThunderClan. He’s old, slow, and unable to hunt or fight; and you might say, ‘oh but all elders are like that!’ except most elders had a very productive life as a warrior or medicine cat before honorably retiring to the elder’s den, whereas Purdy more or less just strolls in. Plus, he has no formal Warriors training whereas somebody like Mousefur could, in a pinch, use their hunting and fighting skills for the clan if called upon. If ThunderClan had to travel a long distance or really just during emergencies in general his age and thus fragility make him little more than a net-negative burden; additionally, the resources that he takes up very well could’ve gone to younger warriors who could contribute significantly more to the clan.
I mean, what does he even really provide for ThunderClan? His stories? While they’re entertaining, they don’t provide much of a tangible benefit towards the clan’s success; he’s really just a ‘morale booster’, and in a world as cruel and deadly as the clans that’s a luxury, not a necessity. Also, there’s a very likely possibility that some brash apprentice could hear one of Purdy’s rambling tales about how ‘you know, back in my day I could fight three foxes all at once’ and think to themselves, hey if he can do it so can I! And then get themselves mauled or worse.
If I was to weigh him in the context of a plot device, as some others on this page like to do, then he doesn’t stand out either. He’s a fairly one-dimensional and stereotypical comic relief character that could easily be fulfilled by somebody like Graystripe; indeed, the one time he was actually significant in terms of plot, in TNP, well… just look at my second paragraph.
Now obviously I don’t support this viewpoint AT ALL😭 I love you Purdy rip
Darktail was wrong to kill all those cats, and if you want more specific then Needletail
hmm, everybody’s favorite cult leader. I assume you want me to defend him, instead of condemning him like every other Rowanstar-brainwashed rube.
Let’s start with Needletail, who you singled out as one of Darktail’s victims. Oh boy.
and I mean… is it wrong to say that she kinda had it coming? She spent her entire time with Darky’s merry band of rogues acting like some rebellious teenager playing at being a revolutionary. She betrayed all her friends, sold out her clan, and cozied right up to Darktail thinking that she was somehow special or clever enough to control him. And we all know how that particular endeavor ended up. When you align yourself with a psycho who likes to drown dissenters for sport, you don’t get to act all high and mighty once your quote unquote alliance ends up with you in the water.
But enough about Needletail, what of Darktail himself? Here’s where we need to think outside of the box a bit; yes, from our moral viewpoints, and through even the Clan’s moral viewpoints, he’s clearly not a good cat.
But from his moral viewpoint, he’s fully justified. It’s certainly not like he’s killing just for sport (ok maybe a little), he had a point. All of the cats he killed were weak, disloyal, or a liability to not just himself, but his entire group that he needs to protect. His Kin. Darktail didn’t have the luxury of growing up in the coddled society of the Clans where those weaknesses are tolerated and accepted. From his perspective, you either give your all to the group and ensure that it’ll succeed, or you perish. You’re either useful or you’re dead. Harsh? Absolutely. Effective? Absolutely.
This is Darktail’s philosophy. This is nature’s philosophy. Wild animals do not waste resources on the sick or wounded, they leave them to die. The Clans waste resources on cats who contribute next to nothing and are at times even fully detrimental- elders who can’t hunt, warriors too injured to fight, even cats who have downright betrayed their Clan (Brokenstar was an amalgamation of all three of these categories during his stint in ThunderClan).
Darktail’s Kin eliminates the weak and the useless, cutting the dead weight.
Yeah, it’s cruel. But in a world where survival is everything, it’s very hard to call it unjustified.
yay finally someone else is devils advocate i can have a break! yay
Bro this is so good 😭
And yeh sorry I meant defend him :b
hmmm one eye from dotc
Lionblaze is boring, especially in OotS.
Sorry mb I misread it, Lionblaze is EXTREMELY interesting, ESPECIALLY in OotS ^^
Lionblaze bad >:(
sorry all Lionblaze fans 😛
Yayyy I feel attacked! Well I mostly liked LionPAW anyways. Lionblaze sucks
why thank you /j
Oh, I meant u ofc, who cares about any other Lions 😛
FireStar’s real name is actually FireRustySmudgeSandStormCloudPrincessPeltHeartYellowWaffleFlightSofiaTheFirst The third >:P
Only SandStorm and his kits know his real name tho 🙁
/lhj
Also BlueStar’ real name is in the spoke of the tongue of angels so I can’t say it 🙁 /J
Hmm…
Firestar was secretely evil all this time.
Now lemme see how you’re gonna defend that lol :PP
… did vert just steal my job? /j
ahh yes a new devil’s advocate let’s go!!!
anyways, Firestar should have stayed a kittypet.
time to watch you struggle >:) /j
If Firestar had stayed as Rusty, One third of today’s ThunderClan would be gone, another one third killed by Tigerstar 1 and the other third would just all be traitors. Then, the other Clans might now be there anymore, killed by Tigerstar or joined ThunderClan. then there would be no Warrior cats universe where true warriors exist. Also, Leafpool, Squirrelflight, Jayfeather, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, Alderheart, Sparkpelt and their kits won’t be there.
yes I know I don’t actually think he should have stayed, I’m just trying to see how vert would defend that.
I know. hehe. Sorry if I was annoying.
Rainflower is a great mom.
What do you think makes her a good mother?
Redz probably doesn’t think so, but just says this to see how Vert will defend it
She doesn’t actually think so, it’s a game, sorta :DD
cUz ShE iS oFc
I think she’s a terrible mom, I’m just curious to see how Vert will defend the claim
Oops sorry
I disagree with your opinion. I think she should be considered as one of the worst mothers in Warriors history, no offense. 🙃
Redfawn doesn’t really think that, she just wants to see how Vert will defend it :DD /nm
disagree
Crookedkit deserved better
It’s not serious though ;-;
(like the others have said- also why is this the claim that has the most disagreements geez-)
Redz doesn’t actually think Rainflower is a good mom, she’s just seeing how Vert will defend that claim.
Same as I said to Ivypaw and Bloompaw ^^
currently working on this one especially cuz as you can imagine it’s quite hard to defend literal Rainflower
One-eye [the DoTC one], was secretly the protagonist and main instigator of all the events that take place in Warriors
oh god how is vert gonna support that
thistleclaw is an amazing, heroic, and kind cat
Imagine you have a warrior. He’s strong. He’s loyal. Unyielding in the belief that his clan deserves nothing less than the best. He fights fiercely, not for personal glory, but because he knows that survival in this dark forest demands strength. He loves deeply and wholly, and when faced with tragedy he not only endures but channels that grief into a grim conviction to never let tragedy strike again. Not to him. Not to his clan. Never again.
Now imagine that warrior being labeled a villain.
Thistleclaw does not fit the narrow mold of the hero that the series presents. He is not as virtuous as Gray Wing, not as unwavering as Bramblestar. His ambition is mistaken as cruelty, and his strength discomforting. Thistleclaw was demonized for who he was, not what he did. But he is a hero nonetheless.
Thistleclaw’s care for his clan went beyond a superficial level of posturing. He embodied it. ThunderClan is fierce, it is courageous, it is loyal. Thistleclaw, too. He had a vision for this clan that he so loved, one of strength and independence and he refused to settle for anything less than that. Intense, yes. But also one of the signs of a true leader; somebody willing to make hard choice for the betterment of all, somebody who will stare into the face of conflict and snarl instead of flinch.
Ambition is also often cited as one of his negatives, and the very idea is preposterous. Let’s not forget that Bluestar herself quite literally gave away her own kits in order to seize deputyship and eventually rise to leader. Every single protagonist, every single hero in this series has had ambition within them. It’s what makes them heroes. Thistleclaw may have been a little overzealous in his ambition, and even that claim is shaky at best, but again- it was all motivated by the fierce love he had for his clan and clanmates.
Speaking of love. Another disparaging sentiment about Thistleclaw is that he lacked kindness, which again I find absolutely ridiculous. His bond with Snowfur was real, and pure. Her death broke him. He raised his son as a single father, and he raised him with the utmost care. He made sure Whitestorm would grow up strong, capable, a ready warrior able to surpass his father. But yes, a cat with not an ounce of kindness. Even his rivalry with Bluestar held no malice, just frustration that his vision didn’t seem to be shared.
What has Thistleclaw really done? His legacy is not tainted by murder and betrayal like the heinous creatures he’s grouped with. The infamous Scourge attack that was witnessed by Bluestar was by Tigerpaw, not him (btw the motivation for that was totally Tigerpaw wanting to impress Bluefur since he has a massive crush on her) , and though he could’ve done more to stop it wholly blaming it on him isn’t fair either. His one named victim is Antpelt, and that was well after he was banished to the Dark Forest and probably turned truly bitter and angry. Lionblaze has more victims than him. Cmon now guys.
Although I will say the Spottedleaf debacle was a terrible indefensible mess. Bleh.
In short, Thistleclaw’s legacy and story is one of great tragedy and misunderstanding. He wasn’t perfect- nobody is, but he was a product of his environment. Shaped by loss, driven by loyalty. He deserved better. That’s all I’ll say.
Brokenstar was a good leader who deeply valued each individual’s best in his Clan.
…yeah, he did great by killing kits. Great leader I should say.
Jacki doesn’t actually think that he’s a great leader, she was just saying something that would be hard for Vert to defend (:
Hehe…
Tigerstar 1 had a crush on Bluestar.
HELP
ok this is hilarious. also, this is completely true. here’s why;
now, we all know that Tigerstar’s a very evil, brusque, and cold character. The quintessential dark, emotionless brute. So riddle me this. Why does he feel his constant need to show off around her? I mean, he’s always trying to prove himself, whether it’s by performing flawlessly as a warrior, pulling various stunts, or loudly declaring his superiority over others (while carefully making sure she’s within earshot, of course). On a surface level one might just interpret this as ambition, but in my opinion, it’s clearly the type of ‘notice me!’ behavior that somebody might awkwardly pull in front of their crush. Hmm.
I mean, why didn’t he just bulldoze his way to power and take what he wanted, like he did later in life with his Bloodclan shenanigans? Because deep down, he wanted her approval. He wanted to impress her.
plus his betrayal felt so very personal- he’s practically shouting, “I’m mad you didn’t see my potential, so now you must die!!!” Classic jilted crush behavior; Ashfur would do something very similar many moons later in the fire scene.
If Tigerstar was really purely about efficiency, Bluestar would’ve been an early target of his, sneakily taken out and replaced with a more receptive leader so that he could rapidly climb to the top of ThunderClan. But he drags it out, because he can’t decide whether he wants to win her approval (and love) or ruin her life. And when Blue finally calls him out with our good friend Fireheart’s help, it’s like watching somebody brutally reject a guy who’s been crushing on them in secret.
I mean, once you start comparing his arc to somebody like Ashfur, you start to see a LOT of similarities. “If I can’t have her, no one can.” etc etc
Aaaa my new fav ship BlueTiger! :PP
ikr :PP
LOL. Redtail too, though. Everyone loves Tigerclaw except his victims and Firestar
Omg
omgggggg this is so canon
I knew Tigerstar wasn’t just evil. Bluestar was always popular in the Clan.
omggggg lovebugs <333333 /j
Hmmmmmm….Clear Sky’s personality change was COMPLETELY called for and he was NEVER a bad guy who DIDN’T murder Bumble! And Star Flower NEEDED that character watering down to be with Clear Sky, because if she didn’t, It WoUlDn’T bE a HeAlThY ReLaTiOnShIp
(also for those of you confused on the concept of the game this is sarcasm XD)
Ashfur wasn’t angry that Squirrelflight chose Brambleclaw over him, he was VERY ANGY because his sweet Brambleclaw chose Squilf over him and possibly, most DEVASTINGLY couldn’t make Ashfur the happiest tom in the forest and to add on to that Brambleclaw tells Hollyleaf to try to murder Ashfur herself cuz he thinks his Ashfur’s hairstyle is getting old.
awwwww ashfur had a cruch on brambleboi
I think this is the opinion of people who ship Brambleash ToT
Jake actually isn’t everyone’s dad
and
dovewing actually doesn’t have eyes at all so how can we argue about whether she has blue or gold or green eyes
and
tigerheartstar is the greatest bestest least annoying character in all of warriors
and
avos is the greatest warriors arc of all time
you’re welcome😌
1) Everybody knows that Jake is a raging homosexual for his one true love Tallstar. The only reason he had his two litters is because StarClan personally came to him and said, “hey bro, do me a solid” and thus two important kits were born; one the savior of the forest, the other its scourge. Jake then spent the rest of his time frolicking on the moors before tragically being cut down by a meteor, thus eliminating the chance for any other litters.
2) boy oh boy, one of the most pointless debates in warriors; dovewing’s eyes. now personally I’m a blue diehard, but I’ll put aside my personal beliefs for this one.
Now, let’s think about this for a sec- while Dovewing having no eyes might seem preposterous at first… is it really? Think about it; if she had eyes, maybe she would have seen how her constant complaining, whining, and inability to commit to anything(tigerbumble, thundershadow, the list goes on and on). But no, she blindly smashes through life with all the grace of a wrecking ball, while we sit here arguing whether her eyes are blue or green or magenta. The real answer is none of the above. Because they don’t exist.
She’s supposed to be the “all-seeing” (all-hearing technically, but basically that) cat with her oh so grand powers, but what does she actually notice? Certainly not the bigger picture. The prophecy? Irrelevant. The feelings of those around her? Ignored. Her own responsibilities? Completely disregarded. Her whole existence is a giant metaphor for seeing everything except what actually matters. Honestly, we should stop debating what her eye color is, because it’s certainly not like they have any meaningful use. Her “eyes” are just as tangible as the rest of her decision-making skills. Nonexistent.
3) If you think otherwise, clearly, you’ve missed the undeniable brilliance that is this self-proclaimed hero of ShadowClan. Tigerheartstar is the textbook definition of perfection—he’s never made a mistake in his life, and if he has, it’s your fault for not understanding his genius.
Firstly, his decision-making skills, which are unparalleled. When ShadowClan was falling apart, did he stick around to help fix it? Of course not! He went on a grand romantic escapade with Dovewing, leaving his Clan to spiral into chaos. But don’t you worry, because when he came back- completely uninvited, mind you- he heroically declared himself leader, and everyone just rolled with it because who could resist Tigerheartstar’s overwhelming charisma? Truly, a king among cats. Tall Shadow would weep in his presence, out of awe and totally not because she can’t bear to witness the state of her precious clan and it’s buffoo- I mean, utterly amazing leader.
His personality, too. Flawless. He’s not wishy-washy, or self-absorbed, or extremely irritating whatsoever. No, that’s preposterous to even suggest. I mean, his charm is… so amazing it hurts to think about. From his incessant whining about his mate to his ability to make a situation wholly about himself, he’s the kind of leader you can’t help but be in awe of. But the best thing about Tigerheartstar is how relatable he is. Who wouldn’t run away from all their problems, only to swoop back in at the last second and act like a savior? Who doesn’t want a leader whose idea of responsibility is entirely situational and whose confidence is only rivaled by his complete lack of self-awareness? He’s not annoying; he’s a textbook example of how not to be, and we should all be grateful for the life lessons he teaches us.
4) I mean I’m sure everybody loves reading an arc that has its main villain killed off in the third book and leaves the main characters twiddling their thumbs until they get ignominiously shelved. Like, the POV characters are all still extremely relevant today, right?TwigFin is a shining example of how to do a relationship right. I’m glad Needletail’s arc was executed so well, and I loved how she made up with Alderheart. And you don’t know how glad I am that Dovewing finally settled down with Bumblestripe instead of chasing after that ShadowClan tom. What was his name? Leopardchest? Hardly matters now that he’s strolled off to some Twolegplace, and apparently isn’t coming back. Good riddance, I say.
oh wait
(also mods I think my other response to this went into spam? it was kinda long so maybe that’s why)
(fished it out!)
I hope you know that both of these made me laugh at 1 am, because they’re just THAT great,
these were absolutely lovely to read 😛 thanks for making this, these reasons are absolutely exquisite
Sunningrocks belongs to RiverClan
but that’s true 😭
tbh I’m just tired of that debate but i guess joyz is right 😭
Firestar likes waffles
ooh good one
Here’s another one >:3
Scourge and Tigerstar I were in love >:)
Why is that kinda sweet tho 😭😭😭
Im not sure about Tigerstar but maybe Scourge cuz that would explain his obsession on him in TRoS. /j
Ravenpaw had a horrible character arc 😛
crookedstar’s parents were great parents.
He had a good FATHER, but Rainflower. . . She’s a walking, meowing Dark Forest debate.
It wasn’t serious, lol
The point of devil’s advocate is to tell a fake silly opinion and the “advocate” has to defend it
Guyssss I have a question. Why in tarnation did Bluestar trust Tigerclaw/star so much? Like I don’t understand when she was so quick to judge Thistleclaw to be arrogant and ambitious. She even trusted him so much that she later got ill about him. Like, how?
Maybe because they had a connection during Bluestar’s prophecy? Tigerclaw was pretty cute and innocent during his days as a kit, so maybe that had to do with their bond?
My best guess would be that she was particularly mistrustful of Thistleclaw because he was close with (and later became mates with) her sister, and she was very protective of Snowfur and therefore quick to look for Thistleclaw’s faults. She wasn’t a very mistrustful cat in general (until much later in life when she became overly paranoid), so since Tigerclaw didn’t seem like a potential threat to a loved one, she didn’t place any suspicion on him more than on any other cat.
Well, I’ve got a headcanon abou this so here I goooooooo :PP
I think Bluestar didn’t trust him at all. Even when he was an apprentice, she didn’t trust him, and I don’t think that distrust went away. Then why did she make him deputy? Well, I think Bluestar decided that her distrust may have been biased because Thistleclaw was his mentor, and she thought: ‘The whole Clan wants him as their deputy, so I should let go of my bias.’ Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s howbI always imagined it :DD
i have a very similar headcannon
bcuz if she didn’t trust tigerclaw we wouldn’t have a good plot
that’s also true i suppose 😛
I thought that was odd too. In Bluestar’s Prophecy she showed how much she distrusted Thistleclaw, and noted that Tigerclaw was his apprentice, and was learning a lot from Thistleclaw. It’s odd that in The Prophecies Begin, Bluestar and Tigerclaw appeared to be quite close. Maybe their relationship strengthened greatly in between Bluestar’s Prophecy and Into The Wild, and we never saw it.
So… Who are your favorite cats in Warriors?
questions like that would be better for the sunning patch! ^^
my favorite characters are jake, whistlebreeze, ivypool, mapleshade, hawkfrost, ashfur, nightheart, sunbeam, tallstar, and wafflepaw :DD
I’M A MAN WITH OPINIONS
I love Hawkfrost he’s such a goober (that loves murder) and Ashfur (that’s also a murderer idk villians are kool)
And I also love:
Shadowsight
Alderheart
Ravenwing
Tallstar
Redtail
Sol
Rowanclaw
Hollyleaf
Ivypool
Antpelt
Ravenpaw
Squirrelstar
Crowfeather
Longtail
…I told you I have opinions XD
HAWKFROST IS SUCH A SILLY GOOBER OMG
YAS THE SILLIEST
*appears* hawkash… *disappears*
omg yesssss hawkashhhh
nonononononono
ahhh no not hawkash that’s almost as bad as ashscourge nononononono
ivyhawk and cinderash forever
Ivypool, Dovewing, Squirrelstar, Bristlefrost, Sunbeam, Frostdawn, Whistlebreeze, Hollyleafand Feathertail come to mind.
My favorite characters in Warrior Cats are Ivypool, Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, Crookedstar, and Mapleshade!
My favorite characters are:
1. Crowfeather
2. Jayfeather
3. Feathertail (i like feathers)
4. Thunderstar
5. Moth Flight
I meeean a lot more but this is just my top 5
I like feathers too
oh great starclan
crowfeather
violetshine
foxleap
gray wing
turtle tail
nightpelt/star
cloudpelt
antpelt
antfur
jayfeather
cricket
thunderstar
lightning tail
sun shadow
jackdaw’s cry
storm
mud paws
jingo
longtail
purdy
ivypool
stemleaf
spotfur
rootspring
crookedstar
and some others??
When I first started Warriors I believe I appreciated Bluestar, Yellowfang, Ravenpaw, Greystripe, Squirrelflight, Stormfur, Feathertail, Tawnypelt, the Stone teller, Jayfeather and Hollyleaf the most.
Now that I am old, my favorites are Star-Flower, still ol Bluestar and Yellowfang, Russetfur, Blackstar, Boulder, Darkstripe, Skystar, Storm, Darktail, Sol, still Tawnkypelt and Feathertail, the Jay, Hollyleaf, Broken Shadow Rock, Rowanstar, Midnight, Needletail, Brightspirit, Shiningheart, Braveheart, Onestar, and Mudclaw, and I’m sure there’s more but that covers the most important ones you need to know 😛
My favorite cats are
Mapleshade
Gremlin ( Graystripe’s vow )
Dovewing
Violetshine
leopardstar
Frostpaw
Turtletail
Firepaw ( Unlike Firestar and some of Fireheart he actually has an interesting point of view )
Nightheart because I relate to him, Sunbeam because she was kind to Nightheart, Frostdawn because I liked her character development, Spireclaw because I thought he was interesting, Fringewhisker because I appreciated her hard work in ShadowClan, Moth Flight because I related to her, Goosefeather because I thought he was very interesting and like arguing about him, Ravenwing because I like arguing about him (in his favor), and Riverstar because I liked his super edition and his personality.
here goes nothing 😛
Ivypool
Hollyleaf
Cinderpelt
Feathertail
Honeyfern
Squirrelstar
Frostdawn
Firestar
Jayfeather
Bluestar
Breezepelt
Violet Dawn
Nightheart
Twigbranch
Heathertail
Dovewing
Crookedstar
Brightheart
Nightcloud
Spotfur
+ a lot more
Dovewing, Firestar, Ashfur, Mapleshade, Crowfeather, Graystripe, Jayfeather
Here goes…
Ivypool
Sqirrelflight
Bristlefrost ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️my poor baby 😭😭😭
Frostpaw not gonna put her suffix (yes I know it even thought I’ve only read up to wind >:<)
Whistlepaw (read above)
Bluestar
Rootspring
Hawk Swoop
Turtle Tail
Hollyleaf
Sunbeam
Nightheart
Oakheart
And LOOOTS more I can’t remember atm 😛
i like hollyleaf, brambleclaw, ravenpaw, dovewing, and ivypool!
BerryHeart.
Scourge.
Sol.
Basically every villain except the minor ones that didn’t show in the main series (Like Dodge), or SplashTail, ThistleClaw, and MapleShade
Also FlamePaw (I don’t like him as much as NightHeart)
reedwhisker n yellowfang!
*clears throat*
BRISTLEFROST
IVYPOOL
HALF MOON
CROWFEATHER
FEATHERTAIL
Sunbeam
Nightheart
Leafstar (kinda like her, maybe not fav)
Bluestar
Rootspring
and I thought I had more but my brain won’t work.
JAYFEATHER JAYFEATHER JAY–
what was the question
bit late but whatever
Tall Shadow
Mud Paws
Fringewhisker
Tallstar
Snowtuft
Nightheart
Stoneteller (Crag version :P)
Sun Shadow
Shellheart (or whoever crookedstar’s dad was)
breezepelt
crowfeather
deafoot
barkface
andddd nightstar 😀
#DeadfootWarriors
Shellheart is underrated
I like so many characters but my all-time favorites are probably:
Ivypool
Hollyleaf
Mistystar (before the Broken Code arc)
Feathertail
Brackenfur
Sorreltail
Whitestorm
Jayfeather
Along with some honorable mentions: Aspentail, Splashheart, Raincloud, Flowerstem/Flowerstar, Fleetfoot (if she counts), Stonefur, Brightheart, Cinderheart, Hazeltail, Bluestar, Falling Feather, Rainswept Flower, Dappled Pelt, Tall Shadow, and Half Moon
I haven’t read the most recent couple of arcs, so my opinions are probably not entirely informed. Who are your favorite characters?
cinderpelt
yellowfang
hollyleaf
mapleshade (not because she’s justified – she’s not)
whistlebreeze
i saw vert doing this. give me a claim, and i shall defend it. try to make it reasonably impossible, okay? As in no “firestar likes waffles” but yes “tigerstar was justified”
I’ll try to make my responses entertaining. ashfur claims are welcome but please not the same claim okay?
Both the ALITM Emberdawn and the LH Emberdawn are the same cat.
umm… please explain!
Haha, there are two characters in the Warriors series named after me (thanks to our lovely Kate Cary!): one of them is a RiverClan cat in Leopardstar’s Honor who is the sister of Mosspelt, and the other is mentioned by Silverhawk in A Light in the Mist as his mate and the mother of his unnamed son. Chronologically, it is difficult (if not impossible) for these two to be the exact same cat because Silverhawk is already dead and in the Dark Forest by the time LH takes place.
So that’s the challenge: come up with a way for these two to be the same cat 😛
Brokenstar was absolutely justified in killing Marigoldkit and Mintkit.
ShadowClan was starving, with not enough prey. There wasn’t enough hunting going on! But if Brokenstar had sent out hunting patrols, he would be viewed as an indecisive leader and be replaced.
so, with no ability to send out new hunting patrols, the only solution is to get less mouths to feed.
and why feed a useless kit when you can feed useful warriors?
Leafpool deserved the Dark Forest and the current medicine cat code is valid.
Leafpool broke the code. It is not what SHE did in particular that is so deserving of the dark forest, it is the principle of it. the whole point of rules is that they have consequences.
if leafpool is seen in StarClan, other medicine cats will think that the code can be broken however they want without going to the DF. and if that particular code, then why not others?
Why not murder?
Bluestar *clearly* had a crush on Tigerclaw.
asdfghjkl
Bluestar knows how dangerous being a deputy is. They have a very high death rate. So why did she pick Redtail and Lionheart as deputy before she finally chose Tigerclaw? Because she had a crush on him and didn’t want him to die.
isn’t it obvious?
😭😭 also love how tigerstar himself literally caused the deaths of those deputies so bluestar’s protecting him from himself <3
yas!
Wait why does that almost make sense-
wait i almost see it now
Wdym no Firestar likes waffles 🥺🥺🥺 /j
Tawnypelt had feelings for Crowfeather in TNP.
ummmm… this is hard
tawnypelt saw that crushes were erupting all around her. stormfur x squirrelflight, brambleclaw x squirrelflight, crowfeather x feathertail, only tawnypelt wasn’t involved.
but what if she was?
ooh
sunstar is the evilest cat in history
He is. He even ate my family /j
AND HE ATE MY SOUL :PP
haven’t read anything involving sunstar, sorry (don’t worry I love spoilers)
I swear you are the only other person I’ve found here who don’t mind spoilers lol ;c;
Frecklewish was awful and deserved the DF, while Appledusk and Oakstar definitely belong in StarClan.
cheating on your mate and banishing innocent cats isn’t against the code. but not rescuing kits is.
doesn’t matter if you don’t see them, it’s still against the code, and the code is the only thing StarClan takes into consideration.
ACTUALLY the code isn’t the only thing starclan considers, they also consider the morality of the cat. I mean, you have a fair point with Appledusk, but Oakstar was a bad guy fr, and he still ended up in StarClan. Also it doesn’t state in the code that it doesn’t matter if you see it or not. Consider Russetfur. She was on the patrol that found Berrykit found in the fox trap and didn’t help him. Should they end up in the DF alongside Freckle, who didn’t even see the kits in the first place when Russet did?
sorry not meaning to get heated I just wanna contribute :3
no, because its called BASIC MATH! Firestar broke the code a buncha times in TPB, but didn’t get sent to the DF. StarClan must have a magic number like 10 or something, and if you break the code more than 10 times you go to the df.
therefore because russet may have broken the code (and I’m counting minor border crossings) less than Frecklewish, who already had a bad record.
and because she was only present for one book, it becomes very difficult for you to prove she didn’t break the code like 500 times before Maplegirl’s Vengeance even happened.
True, but many cats have done terrible crimes, like Clear Sky and Oakstar, but most likely only went to StarClan because they were leaders. Both Tigerstar AND Clear Sky caused mass genocide, but one of them went to StarClan. Also, I believe if there WAS actually a certain number of times you could break the code, it would’ve at least been said in Squilf Hope during the trial, and that’s only hc/inferring. And with anything talking about Frecklewish and the df situation (ie: that one article on the official website) it’s never mentioned that Freckle had any previous crimes, and only goes against her because of her supposed cause of the kits’ deaths.
oh great this is going off to the side
whatever lets go
however, can you think of any other reasonable method of judging that excludes juniperclaw but includes ashy? eh?
also, i’ve read squilf’s hope, the whole mess was very sus and I don’t think Yellowfang would have told them the method.
okay, suppose you are a judge who is convicting a criminal. what do you judge them off? your morals, which depend on every judge and thus is very biased and some people may simply get off because they got a nicer judge? or do you use a pre-established code of law that clearly states what is wrong and what isn’t and how much each counts for in a perfectly unbiased method.
well duh you use the second one.
The warriors series never actually existed.
It is all in our imagination, only we took it too far…
*deadpan*
anything we see, like a chair, is filtered through so much in our vision, our mind, etc. I mean, we probably don’t even perceive colors all the same way!
therefore, nothing as we know them truly exist, and an actual warriors book has next to nothing similar with what we perceive a warriors book to be.
Ashfur didn’t even care about the whole Squilf drama thing, he was just upset Ferncloud was mates with Dustpelt because he had a crush on Dustpelt so he was jealous
ASDFGHJKL
AKJSDSHBD LOL
ashfur was dustpelt’s apprentice, and he thought dustpelt was smart and stuff, but unfortunately dustpelt spent all his time with ferncloud instead, so he depressed and try to murder everyone. simple
You ready?
1. Stormfur was actually the silver cat so Feathertail died for nothing.
2. Rock had a crush on Jayfeather.
3. Princess was evil and wanted to make Firestar suffer by giving away her most misbehaving kit.
4. Sol had a crush on Leafstar
5. Raggedstar never cared about Yellowfang, just wanted her to break the medicine cat rules. (this is hard, as Yellowfang became a med after they became mates. Wanted for this ship to continue.)
6. StarClan and the Dark Forest should be switched around. Most of their cats deserve the other.
Btw, I don’t agree on any of this except number 6.
These are hilarious 😛
I could go on and on. 😄
1. If stormfur hadn’t come on the journey, they probably wouldn’t have gotten to the Tribe or have agreed to help, therefore stormfur saved the tribe
2. why would rock keep appearing to Jayfeather in particular? why not lionblaze or dovewing? also, you see how rock keeps avoiding giving out important info? its because jayfeather LOVES what he can’t get so rock is trying to win jayfeather
3. cloudtail was like a moon old already by the time he was given away. he was like, 2 or 3 in human years. Princess could see very obviously that he was the most misbehaving kit. in fact, so misbehaving that she didn’t want to have to care for him! so she dumped him on firestar and the rest of history.
4. Leafstar wouldn’t make Sol a warrior very quickly. however, that was not why Sol had a problem with it. he was trying to prove himself to Leafstar because he had a crush on her. so when Leafstar thought he was incompetent, that hit harder than normal and he became evil. simple.
5. we’ve seen that raggedstar is a pretty terrible person. while they were doing the cat equivalent of dating, raggedstar probably somehow figured out she was going to be a med cat. he didn’t really like Yellowfang, so he decided to become her mate on a dare and made her break the code and be depressed all the time.
6. this is not even difficult to prove. it’s just true. I have this personal theory that the DF is actually extremely powerful and is whatever you believe it is. for example, if Ivypool believes that the DF is StarClan and hawkfrost believes that it should look like starclan to ivypool, the the df looks like starclan. so if everyone believes the df is the most perfect location with delicious catnip everywhere and everything a cat would ever want, then so be it. and such a nice location should be for good cats, right?
Lionblaze is interesting
what does interesting mean? obviously lionblaze finds himself interesting. if interesting means to provoke an interest in someone, well OBVIOUSLY lionblaze provoked an interest in lionblaze, therefore lionblaze is interesting.
also, the amount of repercussions that “I can’t lose battles” can cause is worth a nice long spiral into mental oblivion, though I’m not sure oblivion counts as interesting
ahhhhh lionblaze thinks lionblaze is interesting therefore lionblaze is a mousebrain!
I have strong opinions on lionblaze 😛
well he is a mousebrain so…
also heathertail used to find him interesting.
Omg lol this one’s HARD
fr tho 😂
rainflower is the best mom in warriors.
i can’t
Hey yall! working on a new article and want to get ur opinions on the new Warriors graphic novel volume 1 if you’ve read it. Thx!! [removed by a mod]
Hi Dandelionscar, I’ve removed the Google Forms you linked because it shares the name of your school at the bottom ^^
Oops! didn’t even realize that
heres a new link!
https://take.supersurvey.com/Q1XRAIZYO
Hiiii! Just wanted you to know that the link doesn’t work for me, not sure if that is just a me problem. Would’ve loved to do your survey though!
Scourge saved the forest
Please remember to reply!
fr
he killed tigerstar, therefore he saved the forest.
I’m rethinking everything now
Thats true lol
oh wait that’s-
Good boi, Scourge *salutes*
Random thing but: How come Sol, an cunning and intelligent villain… became evil cuz he was impatient?! ;-;
I mean, it’s cute and all, and Sol is definetly on my top five favorite villains list (Behind BerryHeart, Scourge, and HawkFrost)
(Yes I love villains with tragic backstories lol- except for HawkFrost the tragic thing was Tadpole’s death)
But really? A fearsome villain like Sol… became evil cuz LeafStar wouldn’t promote him to warrior fast enough??
Anyways, second thoughts:
DarkTail is just Sol but not as intelligent/cunning and more brutal, with different parents ofc- prove me wrong >:D
Also lastly- I strongly stand by MapleShade should not be called ‘justified’ because she got it a little hard. I swear, there are too many articles I’ve seen of people justifying her actions and saying, “Justice for MapleShade!” which kind of scares me of their niavitity to how MapleShade’s actions are so obviously bad and sugarcoated… /nm
Well, I mean, she did kill a lot of cats… But please try to understand. You have kits from a mate in RiverClan. You get rejected and betrayed by your Clan. You try to go to RiverClan, so sure your mate will help, and lose your kits along the way. Then, when you get to RiverClan, your mate rejects you. There was no hope for anything but hatred to stay. But she is evil. She killed tons of cats in the most viscious ways possible.
I don’t know about Sol’s backstory but I totally agree with the Mapleshade thingy… it’s concerning
you’re so right about the mapleshade thing; obviously things were difficult, and I believe ravenwing, oakstar, and appledusk were wrong, but she still CHOSE to become a murderer. she was also happy to go to the df, so I don’t understand why people think she should go to starclan?
preach 🗣🗣
Sol didn’t turn evil just because he was impatient (though he definitely was). He thought he should get warrior status handed to him on a platter without having to do the work. When that didn’t happen, he came up with the scheme to steal Leafstar’s kits and then pretend to find them, and that got him banished from the clan. And that caused him to seek revenge.
I agree with you about the comparison between Sol and Darktail. The first article I published on Blogclan was about this subject: https://blogclan.katecary.co.uk/2023/07/12/sol-and-darktail-compare-and-contrast-by-whitewhiskers/
totally agree with the second one, it disturbs me how so many people justify the murder of innocents…never read sol’s backstory book so no opinion on the first one lol
Mapleshade didn’t deserve the Dark Forest. Others have done worse. Thoughts?
” Others have done worse” is never a valid excuse for any crime. Each crime and each defendant must be judged on their own merits. In the system of rewards and punishments that exists in the Warriors world, she definitely deserves the DF. I don’t think that’s a particularly just system. If she were a human in a modern liberal society, she might well have been judged not guilty by reason of insanity and confined in a psychiatric facility for treatment.
Agreed!
I second this! ^^
I agree!
So true!!
I’m really curious which cats have “done worse”, because a triple-kill streak that includes your own clan’s medicine cat + attempted murder on a pregnant woman is a pretty high (or low, I suppose) bar to surpass. Not to mention the fact that she doomed an entire bloodline, was quite literally the person to guide Tigerstar on the path to evil (and so can essentially blamed for that whole fiasco too) and WILLINGLY embraced the dark forest. She suggests killing kits (seriously, I could’ve started and ended this with just this) in the dark forest attack on the clans and follows Ashfur in TBC while even cats like Silverhawk don’t succumb to the orders of that clown.
Like, there’s a lot of villains that you can die on a hill for and defend. Mapleshade ain’t one of them. You could probably make a better case for Brokenstar. That’s how heinous she is.
i agree
ummm… did you just call ashy “that clown” /nm
oh wow. the disrespect /j
1000% agreed!!
Yes, others did do worse, but that doesn’t take away that Mapleshade did bad things as well. Killing THREE fairly innocent cats is totally not something that isn’t bad to do. She was even happy to be in the Dark Forest, and there she completely ruined Ceookedstar’s life just because he was Appledusk and Reedshine’s descendent! That is not at all okay, and about the others have done worse thing, you could also say: ‘Real-life people who committed three murders should not go to jail because some people there have committed more than three murders’, but that’s not how life works. If it would be justified to just go around and kill three people, the world would be very empty and unsafe. Mapleshade had a tragic life, but that doesn’t mean she can do anything she wants under that excuse. It makes no sense that she shouldn’t go to the Dark Forest because others have done worse, because then technically only one cat can be in the Dark Forest at the same time: the one who committed the absolute worst crimes.
The cat who really ruined Crookedstar’s life was Goosefeather, if he hadn’t chased Stormkit, Rainflower wouldn’t have hated him and he wouldn’t have had to make a promise with Mapleshade.
Even so, seeking out Crookedstar and manipulating him was of Mapleshade’s own doing. I don’t think it’s fair to play the blame game and accuse Goosefeather of being the cause of it all. ^^
The cat who ruined Stormkit’s life was Stormkit. This might sound extremely cruel but one’s actions have their own consequences.
(Help! I sound like my mother)
Stormkit didn’t ruin his own life, he couldn’t know what would happen! Mapleshade did and ruined his life on purpose, and saying it was Stormkit’s own fault is just cruel and untrue in my opinion. He was a kit, and as you know, we don’t always make perfect decisions as young kids. And also, it was an accident that he slipped on the stones and broke his jaw, it’s not like he thought: ‘Oh, I feel like slipping off today.’ And he couldn’t help either when his loved ones died. I mean, if you fall and break your arm, it’s not your fault you broke it, is it? It was an accident and no one’s fault. Except that in Crookedstar’s story Mapleshade purposefully ruined his life, so it is her fault.
But Goosefeather didn’t do it with malicious intentions, he didn’t mean for Stormkit to break his jaw, Mapleshade did absolutely have malicious intentions and actively ruined his life on purpose. And also, Rainflower being mean to him wasn’t the only thing happening to Crookedstar.
Very well said, Fallowsy!
i don’t think we should be comparing the crimes of different cats to decide who gets to go to the dark forest and who doesn’t. if that’s the case, then where do we draw the line? it could be argued that others have done worse than hawkfrost, or tigerstar, or scourge. if that’s how we decide who goes to the dark forest and who doesn’t, wouldn’t that mean everyone gets to go to starclan? and on another point, how do we decide what is ‘worse’ and what is ‘better’, especially if we’re discussing murder?
i can understand perhaps trying to defend mapleshade because of what happened to her kits, but even then, is that an excuse to end the lives of three generally innocent cats? i think not. what happened to her was tragic, but what she did was inexcusable. it was her decision to do what she did.
also, she was rather pleased to go to the dark forest, if i remember correctly. so even if this is in defense of mapleshade, sending her to starclan would also be punishment, in a twisted sort of way.
totally agreed. yall i’m so disturbed by all the mapleshade defenders she literally murdered three innocent cats that is unjustifiable 😭
But she thought her kits would come back if she killed them because her hallucination said so(please correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t really remember Mapleshade’s vengeance)
(i also haven’t read mapleshade’s vengeance in a hot minute so forgive any inaccuracies) but i don’t think she thought her kits would come back, just that she thought they would be avenged. there was the whole thing about ‘releasing their spirits’ or something, and if that’s the case, i would point to what whitewhiskers said above about pleading insanity (because, if we’re all being honest- yes, there are definitely flaws in the warrior cats justice system, in my opinion so much so that perhaps there’s something behind it… ahem evil starclan… but that’s another point lol). in the end, what mapleshade did was still wrong, even if she herself didn’t think so.
i know me too 😭
yeah 😭
yall i didn’t choose to like mapleshade but i still do 😭 😭 😭
its ok to like the character lol im not hating on anyone for liking mapleshade as a character i swear 🙏🙏
and i think she makes an intriguing villain, its just weird that ppl are defending murder
same 😭
I understand the defence of her because it sometimes seems like she was mentally insane. She literally heard her kits voices in her head and believed by killing she was setting them free 😭 while I don’t defend her actions, I understand why some do.
Others have done worse is not a viable excuse. It’s not any type of excuse or explanation. The crimes of others don’t negate the effect her deeds had on her victims. What your really saying is ‘she did the same thing others did’ because she did everything other Warriors have done. Murder, not just one time, but multiple times? Check. Check. Endangering kits? Yup. Lie? Yup. Oh and she comes with bonus points: Essentially brain washing young cats and conditioning them to blindly follow the ways of The Dark Forest. In other words, willfully participating in a war and willfully encouraging other cats to participate in war and perpetuating war. And it’s clear she was one of the main minds that ruled the DF, if I recall. Essentially she’s a war criminal as well as a serial murderer.
If we excuse cats like Mapleshade who’ve basically committed every crime under the sun, then the question becomes where do we draw the line about what behavior is worthy of the Dark Forest and which is not? If we excuse the actions of cats because ‘others have done worse’ and just let criminals into StarClan left and right well, what would be the consequences? Let’s say for a moment that she was misguided and made some poor decisions out of her own foolish hopes and thinking. That shows she doesn’t know how to make good decisions and thinks that acting out of vengeance is a good way to handle problems. Would she really be an asset to StarClan? How well would she actually be able to protect and guide the Clans?
And ‘others have done worse’ doesn’t address her motives either. Let’s take aside her actions for a moment. If she really deserves StarClan, she’d need a good motive as well as crimes that were mild, as you posit. She was never motivated by love or compassion. Obviously, her kits meant a lot to her but I feel like she saw them as an extension of how her Clan saw her and used them as symbols of her status. I get the impression that much of her motives stemmed from selfish intent. She doesn’t consider how her motives affect the Clans. She shows no consideration for how her actions affect her kits. She just focuses on jealousy and vengeance. ‘They wrong me and they will pay’. Me me me me me me. The meism is strong in Mapleshade. That, my friends is not love. It doesn’t even matter if others have done worse. That is not a thought process that would bring good things for the Clans or fix the problems StarClan has.
*every other Warriors villain
I agree that ” others have done worse ” is not a good excuse but I still like Mapleshade.
I think it comes down to this question:
Was Mapleshade aware of her actions, or was she insane?
As tempting as it would be to kill Appledusk, her actions can’t be justified (least of all in a court of law) if she was aware that she was murdering cats.
If she was insane and could prove that, she’d be put in an aslyum instead of prison.
How she could hear her kits voices in her head and believed killing Ravenwing and the others was avenging them could be insanity?
Note: I am not saying Mapleshade’s actions are justified if she was insane. I’m saying it would be unfair to send her to the Dark Forest if she was insane and saw no wrong in her actions, just as it is viewed as wrong by the justice system to sentence someone to prison if they are insane and could see no wrong in their actions at the time of the offence.
I second WhiteWhiskers, and everyone else who doesn’t defend her. Murder is never justified, and killing is only ever justified if done unintendedly and in self defense.
Ok, I will do the thing that vert and crys are doing! Give me a claim, and I shall defend it!
Graystripe and Firestar where stupid to go back from Wind clan by going on Riverclan’s teritory and causing whiteclaw to die.
Swiftpaw was stupid to encourage other apprentices and himself to go kill the beast in the forest while knowing it had big paw prints and killed a lot of bunnies by itself, totally not dangerous.
starclan is evil
Hal was a good father
Midnight is a cat.
😭😭😭😭😭😭
asdfghjkl this is almost as good as blue x tiger
firestar is a very evil cat who wished nothing but the downfall of the clans
also rainflower is the best mom in warriors.
splashtail’s a super nice guy
Lionblaze had a crush on Sol
Ok so I’m doing what Vert and Crys did but slightly more unhinged :PP
Gimme a ship and I’ll defend it :DD Just no close relatives please (stuff like IvyFern is fine, just don’t come up with like, LeafSquirrel or smth)
Dovewing x Bumblestripe
Spottedleaf x Bluestar
Thunderstar x Firestar
Okay, let’s do first things first and start with DoveBumble :PP (Also please note I don’t really ship them lol)
Well, at first Dovewing could find support in Bumblestripe as a friend. She loved Tigerheart at the time, so maybe that is why it might’ve been hard for her to realize she might’ve had another crush. So that is why she kept telling herself she and Bumblestripe were just friends, while they actually loved each other. And you might say her Clanmates pressured her, but you could also say they helped her realize her true feelings, which she did when they became mates. They stayed together for a while and did everything together, showing they did really love each other after all. And yes, they had their ups and downs, like when Bumblestripe asked to have kits at Purdy’s funeral, and their fight in Bramblestar’s Storm that eventually made them break up, but doesn’t every couple have problems? And all cats have their flaws, and Bumblestripe’s main flaw was being oblivious. He didn’t notice it’d be a bad idea to ask to have kits at such a sad moment, but he did it with good intentions, and had probably been wanting to ask for a while and finally got the courage, and he didn’t want to lose that courage and not ask her when he could. And after their breakup, they probably could’ve got together again and maintained a pretty good relationship, if it wasn’t for Dovewing loving Tigerheart.
Okay, let’s do SpottedBlue now!
So, Bluestar and Spottedleaf were shown to trust each other deeply. Bluestar believed anything as long as it came out of Spottedleaf’s mouth, which seems like a sign of a crush, right? And Spottedleaf knew about Bluestar and her kits, but she didn’t tell anyone, and she also thought Bluestar must’ve done it for a very good reason. So both of them believe everything the other does is good, so I’d call that evidence right here. Also, they were lowkey flirting in the prologue of Into The Wild, when Bluestar said: ‘You have never been wrong before, Spottedleaf.’ I mean that’s just sweet, right? They just trusted each other so much that you almost have to wonder if nothing was between them. You could say they were just good friends, but there are definitely signs that they were a bit more.
Firestar X Tigerstar
Bluestar X Tigerstar
Willowshine X Jayfeather (wait this sounds really cute :O)
Hawkfrost X Ashfur
Leafstar X Firestar
nonononono not hawkash /hj
oh well. ship war incoming!
berryheart x tigerstar 2
snowtuft x mapleshade
deadfoot x tallstar
spottedleaf x sandstorm
scourge x sandstorm
Hmmm
StarClan X The Dark Forest
Monster X Twoleg
Trees X Rocks
>:3
Ashfur x Hollyleaf
Alright, I’ve got what seems like a rather unpopular opinion for you guys: No villain is ever “justified” in murdering innocents.
I understand the temptation to try to justify what villains have done, I really do. But in my opinion, nothing–no amount of anger, frustration, jealousy or whatever–justifies killing innocents. We can explain why they did what they did and try to understand their motivations, but that doesn’t excuse their actions. Their victims are still victims, not justifiable losses.
I know that I’m biased here. As someone who’s lost loved ones, I’m more sensitive than most to statements like “so-and-so was justified in killing this cat.” Murder is never justified, and a cat having a sympathetic backstory or a compelling motivation does not excuse their crimes or make their victims any less of victims.
What do you think?
I completely agree. Losing a loved one or experiencing another tragedy, especially in extreme cases like Mapleshade’s, takes a lot out of someone. However, it does not justify taking out that pain onto others, as most villains in Warriors do.
I think I agree. To demonstrate, let’s take all the cats that people try and defend that have commited murder. Namely, Mapleshade, Ashfur, and Hawkfrost.
(Not Tigerstar, Brokenstar, Skystar, Thistleclaw, etc because I don’t think they are usually defended)
1. Mapleshade
She had a terrible backstory. I don’t think anyone can disagree with that. But she was aware of the consequences of having a half-clan relationship, plus keeping her kit’s origins a secret from her clan and delusioning herself to thinking they would accept her later. I do not blame her for her kits being exiled alongside her, as well as her rejection in RiverClan and her mate cheating on her. But murder was not (and is never) a good way to retaliate that.
2. Ashfur
His murder was attempted, but I’ll still put him here. He is an interesting villain, and his motives as well as his story is compelling. But in no way does working with someone to try and kill the father of the girl you love, and then threaten to kill that girl’s supposed kits, is justified. It only gets worse in the Broken Code, after his death, but I won’t into detail about that because that’s not the part most people defend.
3. Hawkfrost
I don’t think people try to justify Hawkfrost as much as the previous two, but I’ve seen many AUs where people twist his story to be good. Like Mapleshade, Hawkfrost had a sad backstory, and some occurances were not his fault (namely, Tadpole’s death and Sasha’s abandonment.) But him being so involved in training with the Dark Forest with his evil father, as well as manipulating Mudclaw and taking away one of Firestar’s lives was not justified. And don’t get me started on the Hawkfrost x Ivypool ship.
Feel free to disagree with me! :3
I agree with you 100%. That is the only morally defensible position.
I will never not agree with this, murder will always be a horrible action even if the victim was a bad person or someone extremely hateable. Killing isn’t and never will be justified.
I agree!
i absolutely agree with you- and i can understand having empathy for what villains have gone through, but what they did was still wrong, no matter how you look at it. no amount of tragedy is ever an excuse to cause more tragedy.
I agree!
Agreed 1000000%. Maybe instead of justifying a villain, you should simply like their villainous qualities instead.
exactly!! like, i used to love ashfur AS A VILLAIN and then everyone started defending him and saying he was justified and now i never wanna hear his name ever again
I agree, murder should not be justified by anything. I think if I were to say a billain was justified I would mean they had their motives and weren’t just killing for thr sake of it
completely agreed ^^
i absolutely, completely, utterly agree 100%. this sums up my opinion so well, everyone on the blog needs to read this comment. it really disturbs me what some people on here are doing.
seriously i have no words for how much i love this comment <3
I agree. The only way I’d want to defend Mapleshade is if she was actually insane and didn’t know what she was doing, but she did so nobody can really defend her 🙂 But I do feel quite sympathetic toward her situation.
I completely agree and I love the fact that you just said that, Redz!! Too bad you didn’t get a page flip /gen
Killing someone else is, if ever, only justified if said person/cat is about to kill you or someone else (self defense).
I 100% agree!
we gotta shut up about mapleshade. I swear, if its not maplegirl its ashy and if its not ashy its dove/ivy!!!!!
can we not come up with anything ORIGINAL to debate about here? ya know what, I’m going to be making a CONCLUSION about Mapleshade:
Mapleshade was a cat who lived a very hard life just like my beloved ashy. However, because many Mapleshade defenders also say that ashy is a terrible cat, they have contradicted themselves and therefore any and all Mapleshade defending is null and void.
Allow me to explain. People walk around saying that Ashy’s actions aren’t excusable no matter how hard of a life he had, then the SAME PEOPLE walk around saying that Maplegirl’s actions ARE excusable because she had a hard life. Huh? There’s got to be a logical fallacy in there somewhere.
so either admit that ashy is right, or admit that maplegirl is wrong. make up your mind, people.
and even if you do believe that both ashy and maplegirl are justified, then please have a disclaimer in your post that says that this applies to the world of fiction only. I forgot to do that and everyone swarmed me,
Mapleshade did have a terrible life, and no one is contradicting that. However, people are saying that she should have gone to StarClan instead. nope, she was happy in the DF. If she was such a sweet, innocent little kitty /satire who had such a terrible life, then why not put her in the DF where she wants to be?
I hereby announce that the prosecution is right, mostly because the defense used the wrong arguments and contradicted themselves multiple times.
getting a bit bored by all the Mapleshade talk so I’ll play some angel’s attacker! respond with a claim (preferably not about our med-cat-murdering “I love the DF” narcissist friend) and I’ll try my best to go and attack that claim.
yes vert, I was imitating you. >:)
smudge isn’t evil
loll, needletail was wrong for sacrificing herself
Fuzzball was cute.