The Elders’ Den

Need a break from the hubbub of the rest of the blog? Or perhaps you just want a quiet page to discuss Warriors in depth. In any case, feel free to unwind in the Elders’ Den!

a long-furred grey cat with yellow eyes sits, staring at the camera

[a very fluffy grey cat with thick fur around its neck, long whiskers, and yellow eyes stares into the camera]

What exactly is this page, then? It’s a place to discuss, in detail, particular aspects of the Warriors series – to pick apart ideas and themes that perhaps either get overlooked elsewhere or require a nuanced perspective. And more broadly, it’s a quiet refuge away from the bustle of the rest of the blog!

If there is a more serious subject you’d like to discuss within the Warriors universe, remember to remain respectful of what people are saying and to handle the topics in question with the necessary care and respect. Does this mean this is a page solely for discussing controversial topics? Of course not, but rather if they appear, the mods ask that everyone involved remain calm and thoughtful – should a discussion verge too far into argument territory, we may step in and put an end to it.

an orange and white tabby cat lies in front of a teal background. it is licking its paw

[a ginger-and-white tabby cat squeezes its eyes closed as it licks its pawpad]

If you’re looking for a general place to talk about Warriors but you feel like your comment doesn’t quite fit the Elder’s Den, check out the Sunning Patch!

4,910 comments

  • 🌿 Echowillow || Willow || She/her || Echo of Whispering Willow || Mentor to the incredible Maplepaw 🌱 says:

    Hi! So I’d like to ask what everyone’s opinions on power in the clans is (and whether anyone agrees with what I’ve put)

    Part 1 of 2

    Starting off with medicine cats, they have the power to out rule any cat in their clan, including leaders, deputies and senior warriors who arguably may make better decisions. I’m reading TBC and Shadowsight seems to use this to his advantage a lot: (spoiler for the end of Lost Stars and start of A Light In The Mist) he actively disobeyed Tigerstar by entering the Dark Forest against his wishes and didn’t alert any of the cats in his clan to what he was doing. I’ve noticed him doing this a lot, and – although I do like his character – it’s starting to annoy me how much power medicine cats have. It also allows a path of corruption to open up for cats in these positions. We were shown how Shadowsight was manipulated into passing on messages that allowed a villain to seize control and everyone believed him despite it going against common sense. Also, Alderheart gave Puddleshine deathberries (in AVoS, I think) which was very risky and could have threatened his life. He was questioned, but was allowed to continue this potentially deadly treatment. This power could lead to a villain who could poison their patients and not be held accountable for their actions (this would be a very interesting plot though)

    Also, the passage of the warrior code that states “the leader’s word is law” has been proven time and time again to allow dictators to rise (e.g. Brokenstar, Tigerstar I and The Impostor, just to name a few). And, when leaders are questioned (Rowanstar in AVoS) it just leads to more chaos and more cruel leaders, further enforcing this rule. Arguably ‘good’ leaders, such as Tigerstar II, use this to their advantage. Tigerstar protected Shadowsight, which lead to the impostor wreaking more havoc upon the clans

    Reply
  • 🌿 Echowillow || Willow || She/her || Echo of Whispering Willow || Mentor to the incredible Maplepaw 🌱 says:

    Part 2 out of 2

    The cats that are chosen to be in positions of power tend to be related or have some form of bond: Sunstar was Bluestar’s mentor; Bluestar was Firestar’s mentor; Firestar was Cinderpelt’s mentor; Bramblestar was Firestar’s son-in-law; Leafpool was Firestar’s daughter; Squirrelflight was Bramblestar’s mate and Firestar’s daughter; Jayfeather and Alderheart are Firestar’s grandchildren; and Lionblaze was Firestar’s grandchild. This pattern is also seen in other clans, such as ShadowClan. Raggedstar’s son was Brokenstar, but that line ends there. Tigerstar I’s daughter is Mothwing, who is the RiverCaln medicine cat; Tiger star’s son is Hawkfrost who was temporarily deputy; Tigerstar’s other son was Bramblestar, and we’ve already gone through him; Tigerstar’s other daughter was Tawnypelt; Tawnypelt’s mate was Rowanstar; their (notable) children were Flametail (a medicine cat) and Tigerstar II; and Tigerstar’s son is Shadowsight. Tigerstar II’s mate is Dovewing, who is kin of Firestar, which means the majority of cats in power seem to have some form of bond to Firestar. It seems very biased to me

    Reply

  • So, everybody discusses Dovewing and Ivypool, but nobody really talks about Violetshine and Twigbranch.
    So let’s talk about them!

    I prefer Twigbranch, but Violetshine makes some really odd requests. Like, ShadowClan takes Twigpaw captive for whatever reason, and for some reason Violetpaw decides that that should mean that Twigpaw should switch her loyalties, just because she’s her sister! She gets furious with Twigpaw for not remaining with the Clan that took her captive, which I think is a bit stupid. Violetpaw seems to forget that Twigpaw has her own place in ThunderClan and that the world doesn’t resolve around her.

    Reply

  • Does anyone think we need more strong female villains? Most villains, even though they’re female, aren’t surrounded around anything but romance. We need a female villain who isn’t focused on romance, or love, or family. Preferably, she’d just be psycho or have a grudge against the clans because of a bad past, like Sol or Scourge. Who agrees?

    Reply

  • Does anyone know a MAP place for host a warrior cat map? BTW, my map is about lionblaze and jayfeather going on patrols when they find a VENOMOUS SNAKE. They run back to the camp but they’re just making more trouble. The snake followed them. So the kits are unsafe and yeah

    Reply
  • Rowanpaw/leaf | Rowan Leaf Drifting Through Autumn Sky |🍂 looking for a mentor🍂 says:

    Does anyone else think Firestar shouldn’t have made Graystripe deputy? I think it was a bad decision and he named him deputy in the middle of a battle, which is a super bad decision.

    Reply

  • I’m not sure if this comment will be better for a different page (if so, sorry), but which cats do you think needs a super edition/novella of their own?

    Reply
    • Flamepaw/spirit || Ospreysplash's awesome apprentice!! || She/her || Arson is life || Spirit of Flaming Arson in Newleaf Sun || IT'S MY BIRTHDAY!! 😀 says:

      I think that an Ashfur SE would be amazing!! 😀
      Please no one hurt me I know literally everyone hates Ashfur and thinks it’s a crime to like him but I think he’s awesome

      Reply
        • 🌻🐜AmberSneeze🐜🌻 (Amberpaw) | Amber Eyes of Moth | (Moth, Mothy, any variation of Amber or Moth) Has never committed arson in the RiverClan camp.. 🔥 says:

          Sorry Sol, but Ashfur was nothing before Squilf lol

          Reply
      • 🌻🐜AmberSneeze🐜🌻 (Amberpaw) | Amber Eyes of Moth | (Moth, Mothy, any variation of Amber or Moth) Has never committed arson in the RiverClan camp.. 🔥 says:

        I’m pretty sure most of the warriors community likes Ashfur lol. I’ve never met someone who despises him at least.

        Reply
        • Flamepaw/spirit || Ospreysplash's awesome apprentice!! || She/her || Arson is life || Spirit of Flaming Arson in Newleaf Sun || 🏳‍🌈 Happy Pride Month! 🏳‍🌈 says:

          Uhh, if you ask close to anyone on BlogClan how they feel about Ashfur, at least half of them are gonna start ranting about how much they hate Ashfur 😛

          Reply
      • Roseheart | Proud mentor of Morningpaw!! | Running for Senior warrior! | She/her | <3 says:

        Oh. Ma. Gawd….. Not everyone hates Ashfur *winks so she gets the hint* I think he was painted meaning the authors purposely did it

        Reply
    • Shadeleap (she/her) | Shades, Shade, Shadey | Shade lit up by Leaping Flames | Mentor to the amazing Sandbreeze! <33 | Running for SW! says:

      G O L D E N F L O W E R
      we need to see why she fell in love with Tigerclaw and how she felt when he turned evil and how she felt when tawnypaw left to go join him and all of that!
      Also i think a graphic novel about Frostfur, Shadepelt, Speckletail, and all the other elders who stayed in the forest would be awesome

      Reply

    • Heathertail, Cinderpelt or Cinderheart, or even a minor character we don’t know much about. A background character would be best in my opinion because in the books, we only see the protagonist’s pov, but we know that cats can have many different opinions on things, we just couldn’t see them, and a novella for a minor character’s pov would be perfect. We also only see the protagonist’s family and friends, causing us to like ships like Leaf x Crow more, but we almost never see minor background characters in relationships, like how we never paid any attention to Curlfeather and Jayclaw being mates until Frostpaw became a pov. I would want to see a background characters’ life, and their struggles living in a Clan, or something we haven’t seen in the books before. I think Heathertail getting a novella would be super cool too because we would get to see her perspective on Lionblaze and Breezepelt at first, and more of how she feels about everything, like the Power of Three, Lionblaze being one of them, Hollyleaf killing Ashfur, since they rescued the kits from the tunnels together, and her relationships with everyone in WindClan. And a Cinderpelt/heart novella would be cool to see as well since we haven’t really seen the scene where StarClan told Cinder she would have to die soon and she would be given a second chance at life. Seeing how Cinderheart felt when she realized she was the reincarnation of Cinderpelt, or what Cinderpelt actually felt for Firestar would be awesome to see as well. :DD

      Reply

    • For super editions, maybe one focusing around StarClan? It could use the perspectives of cats like Yellowfang, Bluestar, Tallstar, etc. to show StarClan’s journey alongside the clans.
      For novellas, first off, Sol. I’d call it Sol’s Journey, and it’d be about the time in between when Sol left SkyClan and when he appeared at the clans, the anger he felt, the cats he met, everything he fought, and his struggles. It’d be about how he shaped himself to be a liar and a deceiver and how he readied himself to make the clans pay.
      I’d also like to see one called Bumblestripe’s Regret. It would be about how after Dovewing left, Bumblestripe took a look at himself and thought “how can I change?”, realizing what he’d done. I don’t know if this would fit with the storyline, but it would provide Bumblestripe a chance at redemption and people who love him (like me!) would be very pleased.

      Reply
    • Rowanpaw/leaf | Rowan Leaf Drifting Through Autumn Sky |🍂 looking for a mentor🍂 says:

      I recently wrote an article about this 🙂
      I think Cinderpelt, Dustpelt or Longtail should get a SE
      And Purdy 🙂

      Reply
      • Sunflight || Sun Flying Across the Sky || Sunni, Sunno || She/They || Mentor to the Incredible Blackpaw! says:

        Purdy!!!

        Reply
      • Rowanpaw/leaf | Rowan Leaf Drifting Through Autumn Sky |🍂 looking for a mentor🍂 says:

        Brightheart, Nightstar, and Scourge already have graphic novels. And Sol, kind of. Those may not count though.

        Reply

      • I’m not sure what story there is to tell about Briarlight. She was injured at the end of her apprenticeship, and she never left camp except when she was evacuated in the flood. She did her exercises, she helped in the medicine den, and that’s about it.

        I think the authors should have given her more capabilities—I’ve seen twolegged cats do amazing things—but they didn’t.

        Reply

    • one exploring more into the ancient warrior people i dont know what theyre called but the ones in dotc
      even after moth flight (was that her name?), i feel like there could be just a tad more context about it all
      maybe a novella
      it would be interesting to learn more about river ripple and tall shadow (were those their names?) in that

      sorry im bad with the names i havent read warriors in a while!!

      Reply

      • I would like to read more about the early settlers as well. There’s an SE coming on RIverstar (Riverripple) in the fall. There are novellas about Shadowstar (Tall Shadow) and Thunderstar (Thunder). But there’s an unknown gap of years between those first leaders and Mapleshade’s Vengance, which starts at 19YBF (years before the coming of Firestar). The only thing we know from those years are the little vignettes in Code of the Clans. There’s plenty of room to expand there.

        Reply

        • Unfortunately, last we ever heard on the plans of Erin Hunter*, there are no plans to return to the era of Dawn of the Clans for another full arc. I believe River Ripple’s SE was the result of a fanvote! To be fair, it has been several years since we learned that DotC is unlikely to be revisited, so things could have changed and that might’ve been why Riverstar was even included in the poll 🙂

          * Full disclosure: I’m working off of memories of conversations I’ve had with Kate years ago, back when she was still heavily involved with the upkeep of the blog. Those conversations happened in our Slack workspace and can no longer be accessed. While I can’t remember the exact wording or when it was said in response to, I do remember distinctly that Kate had said that they [Erin Hunter’s Story Team, most likely] were not planning on revisiting the time period of the early settlers.

          Reply
      • Rowanpaw/leaf | Rowan Leaf Drifting Through Autumn Sky |🍂 looking for a mentor🍂 says:

        There is a River Ripple SE coming out soon and Tall Shadow has a novella. But seeing cats in a SE like Half Moon or Lion’s Roar would be interesting.

        Reply

    • We NEED a novella on Hawkfrost. I think he is cool, and I want to hear more about his motives from his point of view.

      Reply

  • (1/2)
    Okay Fogwhisper is back with stuff about the clans again.
    When Bramblestar was gone, Thunderclan became a complete chaos. They struggled in misery with no leadership. Okay so Squilf WAS the temporary leader, but we can see that there’re thousands of flaws in her leadership. Let’s start from analyzing 2 of them.

    ꜰɪʀꜱᴛ, ꜱᴛᴀʀᴄʟᴀɴ ᴅɪᴅɴ’ᴛ ɢɪᴠᴇ ʜᴇʀ ᴀɴʏ ʟɪᴠᴇꜱ. This is indeed a big flaw. The clans depend on Starclan too much, but we can see that the connection is not very stable. The clans may lose connection with their ancestors, and then they wouldn’t be able to LIVE. In other words, the clans’ leadership system is poor, and it depends too much on faith.
    ꜱᴇᴄᴏɴᴅ, ᴛᴏᴏ ᴍᴀɴʏ ᴄᴀᴛꜱ ᴀʀɢᴜᴇ aʙᴏᴜᴛ ᴡʜᴏ ꜱʜᴀʟʟ ʙᴇ ʟᴇᴀᴅᴇʀ. This is also a proof that the clans’ leadership system has flaws. The cats are angry because they think the leaders’ choice over deputies are biased. But are they? We know that the choices they made are the best, but whey wouldn’t the other cats agree? Because the deputies were chosen by the leaders. And this is the exact reason why voting is better. (BTW And another proof on my opinion about remembering history: No cat remembered that Bramblestar was chosen by ST.)

    Reply

  • (2/2)
    Why would the cats want Bramblestar back so much? This is another question. Bristlefrost’s answer was: Without him how could Tc go back to normal? Squilf was the best option but without Starc’s approval… So, the problem is, why couldn’t the clans go back to normal? Because they don’t DARE trust a leader without Starclan’s proof. So what if a med cat became bad? Then there would be a problem like the Middle Ages. Med cat controls who becomes leader, no cat dares to question. Med cat worked with a bad cat from St (which is very likely) and the whole Ashfur episode happens again.

    My solution is that the clans should vote their next deputy instead of relying on the leader. And they should trust their new leaders more. (But I have to say, the stuff I wrote about bad med could be interesting to read about) Anyway, what do you think?

    Reply

  • apologies if this isn’t deep enough for the elders den, but does anybody else here prefer the earlier arcs to the newer arcs?

    Reply

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