Need a break from the hubbub of the rest of the blog? Or perhaps you just want a quiet page to discuss Warriors in depth. In any case, feel free to unwind in the Elders’ Den!
[a very fluffy grey cat with thick fur around its neck, long whiskers, and yellow eyes stares into the camera]
What exactly is this page, then? It’s a place to discuss, in detail, particular aspects of the Warriors series – to pick apart ideas and themes that perhaps either get overlooked elsewhere or require a nuanced perspective. And more broadly, it’s a quiet refuge away from the bustle of the rest of the blog!
If there is a more serious subject you’d like to discuss within the Warriors universe, remember to remain respectful of what people are saying and to handle the topics in question with the necessary care and respect. Does this mean this is a page solely for discussing controversial topics? Of course not, but rather if they appear, the mods ask that everyone involved remain calm and thoughtful – should a discussion verge too far into argument territory, we may step in and put an end to it.
[a ginger-and-white tabby cat squeezes its eyes closed as it licks its pawpad]
If you’re looking for a general place to talk about Warriors but you feel like your comment doesn’t quite fit the Elder’s Den, check out the Sunning Patch!
I have a question.
WhiteWhiskers, if your comfortable answering, how old are you? I’m curious 😛
72
:0 :0 :0 Now I know why WhiteWhiskers is your name.
WAIT WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
How…is…this…possible…
How is it possible that I am 72 years old? Uh, I was born in 1950 and I haven’t died yet.
Currently, I’m looking for an apprentice, any takers?
Hi Roseheart! This would be better for the Allegiances Chat page 😀
The Elders Den is more for serious discussion about the Warriors series
Oh okay! Thx! 😀
I would love to be your apprentice!
i would love to!
I had no idea this page existed lgjkadfgh
Anyways, do you think there are any overused plots in warriors?
Dunno… I kinda felt like the whole first series and all the plots legit were still brought up in the 2nd and 3rd series
Forbidden romance and rebellion/secret group/group plotting against some Clans? Idk.
Forbidden romance is a bit overused
You mean very? Every arc has at least two or three forbidden romances, and there are a bunch off to the side that we don’t know about or don’t acknowledge too.
Dif Clan romance.
Yes, the whole dilemma with Bristlefrost and Stemleaf, and the whole thing with Sunbeam and Blazefire. Super overused
Forbidden romance, for one, and for two, traveling.
Like oh my goodness a good super edition does not have to be a cat walking.
Definately forbidden romance. It’s a part of the code for an easy plotline.
Forbidden relationships. I’m all for a good love drama, but DANG are there a lot in warriors.
Hello homies
I’m writing an article after about 20 years about the position medicine cats hold within their Clans
There are 2 topics I want to cover in my article that I want you guyses opinions on:
1. Medicine cats have arguably more power than leaders within their Clan. They are rarely allowed to be questioned, and leaders are expected to stand behind their medicine cats. There have been a few incidences of medicine cats using some very risky treatments within the series, with a worrying amount of acceptance from their Clanmates. Is this because a medicine cat’s Clanmates trust them enough, or are they too scared to question their medicine cat or stop them from using methods like this? In one case, Alderheart made an informed decision and used a the non-lethal part of deathberries on a cat who was already almost in StarClan, so I can expect a bit more acceptance from his Clanmates. However, I am surprised at how little cats questioned Shadowsight in Lost Stars?
Once more, cats do question medicine cats a fair bit, but the leader is always standing behind them, basically forcing the cats who voice their thoughts into submission. Is this a healthy practice since the medicine cats are often informed and correct, or should cats be more free to doubt and ask the medicine cats to change their methods?
2. Medicine cats are also the most vulnerable cats within the Clan. They purposefully be vulnerable, as they share issues their Clan has with other medicine cats 3 times a month, whereas warriors almost never share their weaknesses with cats outside of their Clan. Is this a healthy practice by medicine cats to be accustomed to asking for help as the other medicine cats can help, or should they stick to what their Clanmates believe is best and be less vulnerable? (I believe that the vulnerability of medicine cats is very important within the series)
So true, especially 2, since all the warriors are like ‘you tell our teeny-tiny secrets, you are a traitor to the clan’ but med cats are like ‘oh, our clan had greencough and we’re still weak!’
This is kind of unrelated, but I also think that med cats should learn self defense. I know they already do, but it’s clearly not enough (e.g. *SPOILER* Shadowsight was almost murdered by the impostor and I know the impostor is a really good fighter but Shadowsight didn’t even stand a chance 🙁
I do agree, and I’ll probably touch on that in my article 😀
That’s a good point, i never thought of that…. One thing that I’d point out is how everyone always kills the messenger when it comes to them. Like, in the first series, Spottedleaf gets the prophecy “Fire alone will save our clan” and Bluestar’s like “no, fire is scary, i don’t like it, but you’re the medicine cat so i guess it will ¯\_(ツ)_/¯” but then in TBC Shadowsight gives the Bramblestar and Tigerstar fighting vision and the codebreakers thing and everyone says “oh he’s young and stupid he’s not trustworthy” and they might’ve been right on the codebreakers thing but like, that vision was from starclan and any time anyone says “that medicine cat is stupid” because of StarClan it just irritates me. They aren’t the ones making up the dream and most of the time they don’t even interpret it, they let the leaders do that! Cats hate the medicine cats only because they don’t like their message and that just bothers me
That is very true! I’ll have to talk about that 😀
For 1, I think the Clanmates just trust the medicine cats. Leaders place absolute trust in med cats every single day for visions, advice, and if they or Clanmates are ever extremely injured, treatment. As for the warriors as well. In ASC, you can see how much trust they have to put in Frostpaw to allow her to choose the next RiverClan leader. Their connection to StarClan is also one of the factors that probably cause everyone to place absolute trust in them. And while some cats might want to contradict a medicine cats’ decision, they probably wouldn’t since they would face the anger of their leader, and most of their Clanmates. Med cats are also quite impressive to warriors since they practice something unique and special, which causes warriors to admire and respect them more. They are also meant to be harmless, and don’t harm, but heal, so I’m assuming cats would trust them more for that.
1. This is an interesting topic. I think that warriors are taught to blindly trust medicine cats because they are a hodge-podge mix of priest, scientist, and doctor. They are the spiritual leaders as well as the healers. I think this trust isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s *good* for cats to question some practices. I think one issue here is that the current medicine cat decides for themself and for their Clan what is an acceptable practice. For example, Leafpool, in Power of Three, mentions how she never uses deathberries to put a patient out of their misery. But it is brought up that Littlecloud does. I would wager that at the time, the whole of ThunderClan would agree with Leafpool and say that using deathberries was wrong. But I also think that if Leafpool changed her mind suddenly they would still just go along with what she said. But what’s dangerous about this is the same thing that’s dangerous about the Code rule of following the leader’s word without question. Perhaps more so, since it’s unspoken and followed without having to be told. If a medicine cat wanted to overthrow their leader in a power grab, they would absolutely be able to, and that’s frankly terrifying. They could simply say that StarClan no longer approves of the current leader, and nobody could contaidict them. They could then just put a puppet leader on the throne. So yeah. I do think that warriors should maybe think for themselves a bit more and question their medicine cat if things look a bit iffy.
2. I think it’s *GREAT* how the medicine cats are vulnerable with each other. Medicine cats were the Clan’s first mediators as well as healers and spiritual leaders. By sharing news and information with each other, vulnerabilities as well as strengths, they were keeping the Clans afloat, behind the scenes. Medicine cats commune with StarClan, so they know better than anybody how the Clans have to work together sometimes in order to thrive. So sharing medical practices and new discoveries was probably invaluable in between DoTC and the rest of the books, when the Clans were starting out. In fact, it was probably even more so when the Clans started seeing each other as rivals rather than friends. That medicine cats are comfortable asking other Clans for help is great. It means that they can be send as an ambassador to ask another Clan for help. They would be met without suspicion, or at least with less. We’ve even seen this in the books, where whenever a leader travels to another territory in peace, they bring the medicine cat as proof of their goodwill. Medicine cats’ vulnerability is needed as to depict them as a symbol of peace, as well as so they can work behind the scenes to keep all Clans functioning properly.
Thanks for bringing up these topics, Osp! This was great!
1. Very true. Medicine cats do hold a lot of power, but that’s only because they’re trained thoroughly for many moons, more than a warrior apprentice is. I’m sure their Clanmates don’t doubt them, because, of course, a medicine cat would know far better than them. If a warrior, who knew very little to nothing about medicine, were to ask the medicine cat to change their methods, a cat could get sick or worse. So I think the system of the medicine cats knowing best is good enough.
2. I think the medicine cats only share what’s going on health-wise in the Clan because they trust the other medicine cats to keep to themselves the situation of other Clans. If another medicine cat told their leader another Clan was sick and vulnerable, an attack could be launched. As far as I know, this has never happened before, so I’m guessing medicine cats trust that this won’t happen in the future. Besides, if an outbreak of sickness happens and the medicine cat doesn’t have the herbs needed, the Clan’s, leader’s, or medicine cat’s pride shouldn’t cause deaths of many cats because they refused to ask for help from other medicine cats. So I think taking the risk of telling other medicine cats the health problems in their Clan is worth it.
This is an interesting topic! As I’m thinking about the series and when has there been an evil medicine cat? Hawkheart (or whoever killed Moonflower) is the closest and he did it because she tried to destroy the medicine supply. Why? It would certainly be an interesting plot for the book! And everyone has some good and bad in them, so it would be possible! Also, if medicine cats are vulnerable, they are different. I don’t know why, but they all say “Those are warriors. We are medicine cats. We have different rules.” Well, why can you share the darkest secrets of your clan, feed cats death berries, and have the power to overthrow your leader? Those ‘different rules’? (Sry for the rant)
I think Tigerstar I was right about uniting the Clans. They have NO REASON to be fighting all the time and there would be way less death from injury and sickness since the medicine cats would also be more united They already work together all the time in the later arcs, so why can’t they just become one Clan?! And if the Clans were united, there would be no risk of forbidden love between Clans.
And secondly, Tigerstar had so much hate for half-Clan cats, but if Tigerstar was planning for the Clans to unite, there would be lots of half-Clan cats anyway. I don’t really get what his problem is with half-Clan cats.
Yeah. I think he just went about it the wrong way.
Agreed
Kinda like what I said on the last page about him :3
If all the Clans united, there wouldn’t be Clans, would there? No one would be half-Clan anymore, technically speaking, since there would only be one Clan. His problem with half-Clan cats was about that “you must have pure blood” thing lots of villains are obsessed about.
I need ur opinion on this.
if Tigerstar II was deputy and when he died he was revived bc in the words of StarClan “he’s deputy so his clan needs him” BUT WHY DIDN’T REEDWHISKERRR Idc if it’s for plot, IT JUST DOESN’T MAKE SENCE TO MEE
Yes! Exactly!! (AndtheyhadTawnypeltforStarClan’ssake)
The only reason Tigerstar II was revived was that he was brought to the Moonpool right after he died. Mistystar died after Reedwhisker (I think), so he couldn’t have been revived.
Or maybe RiverClan just wasn’t thinking
lolllll
Oh yeah i didn’t even think of that!!
let’s remember that Tigerheart/star died next to his mate, kits and travelling companions. They took him to the moonpool whereas when Reedwhisker died they couldn’t find his body for several days. Or RiverClan didn;t remember lol.
I don’t know
Hello elders! Just casually coming into your den to do in-camp duties.
Here’s the moss for your nests: 🌱🌱🌱🟢🟢🟢 (and some feathers for your nests too: 🪶🪶🪶🪶🪶
Here’s the mouse-bile for your ticks: 🟤🟤🟤🟤
And here’s your fresh-kill: 🐿️🦎🦐🦐🐡🐡🦅🦅🦆🦆🐀🐀🐠🐠🐟🐟
Have a nice day!
Thanks
Ah man you beat me to it I was gonna be a nice girl today and feed the elders. Guess not.
ooo!
Has anyone else here read Tailchaser’s Song by Tad Williams? It is my favorite non-series cat adventure/fantasy novel. It is the story of an ordinary young ginger tom named Fritti Tailchaser, who goes on a quest to find a missing friend/mate and gets caught up in the great events of his time. He becomes the one who has what it takes to save not only cats, but the whole natural world, from a great evil. There are cat knights errant, cat royalty, cat mythology and cat ceremonies. To a first order of approximation, it is Lord of the Rings with cats.
I was published in 1985, which makes me wonder, due to certain similarities, whether one of the Erin’s may have read it.
Whoah. It sounds amazing!!
(Lord of the Rings with cats, huh? My Dad’s always saying Warriors is Game of Thrones with cats, and I haven’t even watched it xD)
Ty for the recommendation!
I’ve heard of it but never read it. There’s lots of speculation from the portion of the fandom that knows of it whether it was an inspiration/base for warrior cats. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the Erins have read it, but i’ve never seen any confirmation
Sounds interesting!
Thank you for the recommendation!
ive heard it mentioned on the blog a couple of times but ive never read it
That sounds awesome! Where do I find it?
It’s available as a print book or an eBook from the usual sources, or possibly from your local public library.
Hey Elders! I’m here for you to entertain me- I mean to take care of you guys!
*Changes bedding and lines with feathers*
*Drops mouse on floor*
Now, let’s discuss a very controversial topic.
Why Dovewing sucks.
Dovewing is amazing what r u talking abt?
Seeee… thats why I said Controversial!
Well, I don’t think Dovewing is a bad character, but I don’t think she’s good either. I mean, I don’t dislike her, but I don’t like her either.
So, you’re neutral
pretty much
I don’t think Dovewing sucks! Can you state your reasons? (That aren’t “because Ivypool is better”)
Well, first off, she’s just and emotional wreck in the series. I honestly thought she was better as Dovepaw. When she became Dovewing and her powers went away or whatever she was just sulking and moping around, and her attitude is just, no. And when Bristlefrost died, she didn’t even go up to her sister and comfort her for her kits death! And although the toxic relationship with Tigerstar does nag at me, I do understand that people do fall into those situations. Dovewing could’ve avoided it! SHe went and he used her then she crawled back to him again and he shunned her AGAIN for his Clan. I’m sorry, but I don’t get how all of you guys like Dovewing. I respect you and your opinions but this is just how I feel. And when have you ever heard me say that Dovewing is bad because Ivypool is better, Skye? Now tell me why you think Dovewing is a good character, of course if you are willing to share your reasons
I COMPLETELY agree with you! I’m also a fellow Swiftie 😀 Taylor swift rules!!!!!!
yesss
She wasn’t really allowed to just go to ThunderClan to talk to her tho… And she could’ve talked about Bristlefrost off screen….
I’m not even a Dovewing fan but those aren’t valid reasons.
I just don’t like her, alright? And I don’t like her for those reasons and I don’t think they’re not valid.. 😀
(I never heard you say Ivypool is better, all I’m statign is that most Dovewing haters I’ve seen comments from say that, so I just wanted to keep to Dovewing in the debate)
I honestly like Dovewing because of her situation! It’s unique that she’s trying to make up with her sister while trying to understand what she did wrong all while not knowing that her sister is being a victim of manipulation, and it’s interesting to see the treatment Jayfeather and Lionblaze give her because of her powers and how she reacts and sometimes attempts to rebel against those expectations. I do dislike her romance with Tigerheartstar, but honestly, she was having so much trouble inside her Clan that he was like her escape – it’s no wonder she was oblivious to what he was doing, which can happen in a real life toxic relationship as well. Plus, she could’ve easily have comforted Ivypool off-screen – we weren’t seeing it from either of them’s POV, especially since the only ThunderClan POV had just died. I enjoy Dovewing’s little rebellion against the expectation of the Three and I find it sweet how she’s trying to make everyone happy while not really. Moving to ShadowClan was brave – despite it being for Tigerheartstar and away from her family and friends…And she was, in my opinion, a pretty good mother! And in the most recent arc, I like the way she handles Nightheart’s trials – and she’s excited to see Ivypool, which is always kinda cute <3
Okay, those are my reasons!
(Note: Yes, Taylor Swift forever)
I DEFINITELY don’t think she sucks. As a defense to what you said below, I’m going to copy and paste a line from my Dovewing article: Dovewing thought her powers were something everyone else had until Jayfeather and Lionblaze told her she was part of a prophecy and those were special powers. Then she suddenly lost them after she had them her whole life, and it would be super hard for her to suddenly have to adjust both times. And: Wouldn’t you be upset if some power you had suddenly disappeared and everything felt strange to you now? She had her powers her entire life, and it must’ve been a shock to her to lose them after all that time. And lastly: Dovewing would’ve felt as if she had just lost her hearing and she had every right to be upset. And Dovewing was probably struggling with helping Shadowsight on his new path to being a medicine cat with no connection to StarClan while Ivypool was grieving for Bristlefrost. Plus, in Shadow, you can see she frequently visits Ivypool, and even if it wasn’t in the books, she probably did to comfort Ivypool. And even if it sounds easy, it’s hard to push away your feelings for someone you love, after so long of caring for them. I personally love Dovewing because always does what’s best for her family, and always believes she is doing the right thing in hard situations, even if the best way forward is unclear. She is an amazing mother who would do anything for her kits, and one scene that made her one of my favourite characters is the one where Shadowsight goes to her for advice. I don’t remember the words specifically but she gave meaningful advice to Shadowsight and at the Gathering where he revealed the vision about the Codebreakers, she wasn’t angry at him, just proud. She is also quite kind and caring, and always tries to be fair, even if she is a bit stubborn sometimes. <3
Omg yesss Dovewing is literally the worst. Want to rant about it together? 😀 😀
yess
I’m neutral on Dovewing but she needs more brain cells
Agreed! I just don’t think she’s very interesting
Also I do like Ivypool better 😀
Dovewing doesn’t suck:(((((((
I did write an article on her once and yes, you read it because I saw your amazing comment(thank you so much!!)but that probably won’t change your mind 😛
Oh wow I read more of the comments and people are so nice on here wow
I wanna discuss something cus I never talk anymore cus meh too busy (with that stupid thing you ppl call “algebra”)
HMmMMMM
1. Death and Re-Death of StarClan-ners
2. Clan Wars/Battles and over-used anything
3. LizardStripe
Choose one…if you dare (jkjk)
I have made the hardest decision of my life deciding whether or not I shall dare to risk my life on this treacherous journey /j How about Lizardstripe 😛
What is your opinion on her and how she disliked the idea of having kits and if she was part of the reason Brokenstar became the way he was when he grew up? 🙂
Honestly? I REALLY REALLY dislike her. Sure, she didn’t want to have kits. Okay, I understand. Most parents don’t when they’re young. But that didn’t give her a right to treat them horribly and also tell it to them. I have considered that. I think Lizardstripe had a part (maybe 3/10) in his evilness.
Her mothering also had affected her own children, ‘making’ them bully Brokenkit. Even Runningkit(nose) had, at first! He even called him “Bader-stinky” like. He was so young, how do you honestly think that would affect a TODDLER?
I agree! ANd on another note, I didn’t think that the mods would let that word slide lol. (no offense Honey!)
Oops, you’re right! Thought I had edited that out. Thanks for catching, Polar!
Thanks, and sorry about that 🙂
Good points! I also dislike how she was bullying Yellowfang along with Foxheart. 🙂
Lizardstripe. I hate her so much, and she was obviously a terrible mother and foster mother, but I don’t think she was the reason Brokenkit/star turned out so bad. I think he was just born evil. What do you think?
I believe no one is born evil! They may have poor reasons to become evil, but they can’t have been born evil.
Yes, Lizardstripe was terrible at motherhood. Just because she didn’t want kits didn’t give her the reason to treat them like trash and to repeatedly say it in front of them :/
I think that Brokenkit probably could’ve been swayed to be good, and that Lizardstripe’s bad mothering definitely effected Brokenstar’s later life, but I think he had that hate/anger to begin with, as in Yellowfang’s Secret it’s stated that when he was born, “his face was contorted with anger” or something like that 😛
I think that’s pretty much impossible – it was probably either her imagination or some weird effect of his birth. He couldn’t be born evil, like, he hadn’t even SEEN the world yet 😛
I guess he just assumed it was a dumpster fire 😛 /j
I don’t think anyone is born evil! It’s just not justifiable to me. He had so much trauma as a young kit!
1. Emotionally/Physically abused by his foster mother
2. Bullied by his foster siblings
Not trauma but there is these:
1. Born in secret
2. Spoiled by father and named warrior EARLY
3. Found out his medicine cat is actually his mother
Death and Re-Death of StarClan-ners
I could write for pages and pages about the problems and inconsistencies with StarClan (and the Dark Forest)—it’s one of the most annoying aspects of the series for me. But since you suggested this one aspect of the problem, I’ll focus on that. But first, this is what I think is the root of the problem: When you write about a fictional or fantasy world, you have to be consistent about how things work. The world can be very different from ours, e.g., cats have language, a system of government, a religion, etc. But that world has to be consistent within itself. This, IMO, is what the Erins have not done, with regard to StarClan and the DF. They did not, in the beginning, sit down and write a set of rules about what StarClan could and couldn’t do and then follow them consistently. (I have read that, in the beginning, they didn’t even know that they were writing a series, let along one that would go on for over 20 years.)
Instead, when they needed a new plot twist, they invented a new power for StarClan and/or the DF. So although, in the first two story arcs, StarClan cats only appeared in dreams and visions, they began showing up, embodied, in the waking world. Cats who visited the DF in their dreams brought real injuries back with them; cats that were killed in dreams in the DF stayed dead in the real world. In the great battle, dead cats killed living cats and living cats killed dead cats (in which case they vanished), and dead cats killed other dead cats, although we had been told that cats remain in StarClan or the DF as long as living cats remembered them. It’s just a muddle and a mess. It makes no sense.
Agreed! NO SENSE. I’ve heard some theories around some other websites about what could make this make sense.
One was that maybe the cats don’t actually die. Maybe their mind and memories are transported to a different world and upon reaching, they gain special abilities. So in other words they’re not dead. And this “second death” is really their first and only death. No afterlife cause there was kinda before.
You ought to write an article about StarClan, Whitewhiskers! I completely agree. It’s just a strange, nonsensical aspect of the books that gets worse with time. I could rattle off a long list of my problems with them, too, though I haven’t read the books in a while.
Thanks. I may do that.
For those of you who have read ASC, what do you think of Lightleap and her becoming mates with Blazefire? :))
I think… that that’s reasonable, and also a copy off of TBC, when the whole Stemleaf thing happened.
Sunbeam x Blazefire doesn’t seem right to me. Their personalities clash, and I think Nightheart x Sunbeam works much better, though they definitely need to nail down which clan they’re staying at, and discuss the whole mate thing much more thoroughly.
Also, I find it funny (and a little concerning) that when Ashfur got rejected, he went totally ballistic after a long period of time (which, now re-reading, makes me angry because Ashfur was a very good character), and when Bristlefrost and Sunbeam got rejected, they didn’t freak out. It’s probably because the Erins needed a villain and there was the strife between Ashfur, Brambleclaw, and Squirrelflight, so it was perfect, but still. It seems a little odd to me. But who knows? It could also be because Sunbeam and Bristlefrost almost immediately found love interests of their own.
I really wish there was a she-cat protag who just never mated and the whole story based around her would NOT be about mating/having kits because the whole thing is getting a bit old to me. I wish there was a she-cat who focused more on her family, or her warrior duties, or becoming leader, like the toms do. I mean, seriously?? I get that maybe it’s because procreation with cats is required to keep the clans going but just please, spare one she-cat… (Even Frostpaw, a med apprentice, still got a love interest, who – in my opinion – wasn’t even that nice once you got to know him!!)
Sorry, that was a tirade. I feel strongly about these sorts of topics.
YES! A she-cat protagonist who never mated! PLEASE! WE NEED THAT! (Someone else shares my opinions!!)
well Leopardstar? I mean she did have a love interest, Frogleap, but they separated because Leopardstar wanted to be deputy and focus on serving her Clan. They also stayed friends, and Leopardstar was even on pretty good terms with Mosspelt, Frogleap’s mate. I’m not sure you can call her a protagonist though;;; she’s one of the more minor characters, but she did have a Super Edition (Leopardstar’s Honor, which I’m currently reading)
Neutral! They’re happy and they love each other and Sunbeam is now okay with it. So it’s good I guess?
Omg I hate those two both as a couple and as characters so much. Both Lightleap AND Blazefire said, “oh, no, we’re just friends wink wink” and then poor Sunbeam finds them LITERALLY DATING IN SECRET and they’re like “oops surprise haha!” which made me very angry and when Sunbeam’s talking with Blazefire, she’s just like, “well, poor Lightleap’s gonna be so worried and have a heart attack if you’re not back so go get back because I have a new potential mate and my character development is ✨RUINED✨ woohoo!!!” so it made me very very angry. Sorry for ranting haha 😛
Okay. (Btw hi elders here’s a squirrel for your troubles)
At first, I will admit I hated her, but I didn’t want Sunbeam to be with Blazefire. Then, I thought, wow this might be good for her. Because she won’t be that annoying to Sunbeam and question her about Nightheart (did I mention how annoying Lightleap was? We get it, you didn’t go to a portal to dead cats.) When Sunbeam and Nightheart really began, she kinda faded. And (I hope I’m not making this up, I forget) when she finally started carrying Blazefire’s kits, she honestly was a lot better. So, currently, I’m neutral on the situation and cat. (Except Blazefire is awful)
I don’t like Blazefire, I never did. I think Lightleap deserved better than him.
I don’t like it. Blazefire is an alright cat, but Lightleap is bratty and reckless. And even though she does straighten out later, I still cannot forgive her for breaking girl code! Like Solar said, their personalities clash and I don’t think there’s any romance between them. Like, I get that she found Nightheart later, but still. The way everyone rubbed it in her face………………….. and Blazefire literally said, “Oh, I love you, yea but I love your bestfriend more than you so hehe yea sorry.”
Good points! What’s “girl code”?
I think what they’re referring to as girl code is basically not getting with your best friend’s crush? It was a crappy move of Lightleap, but from my viewpoint, she’s manipulative and doesn’t care about Blazefire as much as Sunbeam does, and obviously doesn’t care about their friendship, so I guess it’s to be expected? It’s kinda sad, I thought she was decent in TBC.
Why not ‘friend code’? I hope boys don’t do that either-It’s literally just SpotXStem again, and I kind of hate it. Sunbeam is Briss 2.0 and it just seems lazy…
fr tho
SpotxStem was way better executed though. I actually love them and they are such a lovely pairing, they both clearly care for each other and neither one gave up their friendship with Bristlefrost. However, Lightleap and Blazefire just both seem kind of bratty 😛
Hey elders! *changes bedding* while I’m here…
Does anyone else love Blossomfall and think that she should become dep? Just me? Ok…
BLOSSOMFALL????
I like Appledusk even, but that is too much Storm…
Hold on, you like Mr Cheated-on-both-cats-I-got-pregnant and you don’t like Blossomfall? /kind-of j
My favorite characters in the media tend to be characters with absolutely moral standards. But Blossomfall just wouldn’t be a responsible dep imo lol
No! I actually like Blossomfall! I totally understand her jealousy for Briarlight and hatred towards Millie! She was a brat when she was an apprentice, but then she got better and she’s actually a pretty good character now!
No I hate her so much!!! she’s so selfish and mean, and I feel like if she became deputy then she’d let her family problems and personal issues rule her and i dont think she’d be a good deputy
I love Blossomfall – I don’t want her to become dep though ;D
I HATE Blossomfall. I think she was a huge brat as an apprentice and young warrior, and in Squirrelflight’s Hope, she was actually cheering for there to be violence against the Sisters, and not because she thought it was going to be best for the Clans. But I respect your opinion, even if I think she shouldn’t become deputy :))
I’m neutral on her. There’s these cats, you know, where you think about them, and their actions, and your thoughts echo a void. You literally have no opinion. That’s the case for me and Blossomfall. Despite how bratty she was, she probably deserved to be bratty, because of Millie’s treatment towards her.
(Also, is anyone disappointed by what happened with Millie? Because I am. I really liked her in Graystripe’s Adventure, and I still kinda do; she’s ambitious and fearless and I feel like they ruined her character a bit by making her fuss over Briarlight. She felt different in the books – am I the only one noticing?)
YEAH I liked her better before Briarlight
I love Blossomfall! She should totally become deputy!! Welllllll, first I want Squilf to make Ivypool deputy and then once there’s an Ivystar then we get Blossom as deputy 😉 <33
I sympathize with Blossomfall, I understand her situation, I think she’s an interesting character, but I don’t like her much
Hey, elders! I’ve brought you a juicy mouse. While I’m here, there’s a few topics I’d like to discuss.
1) How long the books have been going on. Should they stop? It feels like the Erins are running out of ideas… What do you think?
2) What do you think about how she-cat protagonists and tom protagonists are portrayed in the series? Do you notice a difference?
3) What do you think about Bristlefrost and Sunbeam? Are they similar? If so, why?
Pick one, if you dare..
I’ll pick all three >:)
1. I want them to keep going because i like reading them, but the plots are getting lazy…. If they had better ones, they could go on for years!
2. I think there’s a huge difference. She-cat protagonists are usually softer and gentler (Leafpool, Dovewing, Twigbranch, etc) and its suuuper focused on romance (LeafXCrow, TigerXDove, SquirrelXBramble and SquirrelXAsh, etc) while the Tom’s perspectives usual have stronger, harsher cats (Brambleclaw, Lionblaze, etc) and while they do have some romance (CinderXLion, JayXHalf, AlderXVelvet, etc) it always takes a back seat to the main plot
3. Yes. They have similar personalities, both had a crush on a tom who rejected them and got with someone close to them (Briss’s aunt and Sun’s best friend), they fell in love with another tom who’s obsessed with them, insanely immature, and ready to give everything up for them, and they both went on a journey with said love interest which is where they fell deeper in love
I’m DOING THEM ALL!!
1) I don’t feel they are running out of ideas! The three most recent arcs are so good, unlike the slowly paced others. I hope warriors keeps going for a few more arcs at least!
2) She-cat protags aren’t usually well done… I love Squilf outside of her arc, though. Leafpool was a camera, Squilf was rude mostly, Hollyleaf was eauuughh, Dovewing was boring during her arc, Ivypool just genuinely is a horrible person, Violetshine is also a camera, Twigbranch was rushed, Bristlefrost is slightly bratty and whiney, and Sunbeam is fine. Sooooo…. I have complaints about them all, which is VERY different from the toms. (Clear Sky, Alderheart, Rootspring, Shadowsight, AAAAAA)
3) I think they are siilar, but I hope the Erins do something with it! Maybe some cool little thingy idk how to describe
The books have been going on for over 20 years—the anniversary was earlier this spring. It is a potential problem for any long-running series to keep coming up with good, new ideas and not repeat yourself. It may be true that the Erins are having trouble coming up with good new ideas. I have only read through the end of aVoS so far, so I can’t really comment much about what comes later, but I think that in PoT and aVoS they relied more and more on supernatural stuff, such as the war with the Dark Forest. I’ve complained elsewhere about the way that StarClan’s and the DF’s abilities have changed over the course of the series. Although I haven’t started TBC yet, I know that one of the plotlines revolves around Ashfur reincarnating himself in Bramblestar’s body, which seems even more far fetched than the supernatural stuff in the previous arcs. It may be that it is time for the Erins to retire the series, but regardless of what I think, I expect that they’ll keep writing them as long as they keep making money.
1) I actually think the ASC plot is pretty original! (Save for BlazexLight, but even that was pretty different, and for Frost’s connection to StarClan – but that was also very different) I don’t want the books to stop.
2) YES! I DO! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! We need some stronger, harsher AND AMBITIOUS PLEASE AMBITIOUS she-cats like we had with the toms. And we need some gentler toms like Alderheart – who was the only protagonist one!
3) They are similar in SOME ways, but I actually find them a lot different. In personality, in problems (mostly) and even in story – I know they were both rejected by their crushes, but they dealed with it much differently and Sunbeam’s has been protrayed and dealt with much differently than Bristlefrost’s.
1) I do feel like the plots are getting more and more far-fetched but I love this series!!!
2) Yussssss she-cat protagonists seem more focused on romance/children; e.g. Dovewing/Twigbranch (I do liked that Twigbranch didn’t want kits though) While others like Squirrelflight/Ivypool is less focused on romance, they’re still way more emotional and family-focused (which is not necessarily a bad thing but) than tom protagonists
3) Well they were both rejected by their love interests, and both found love interests that are younger than them.
*Rambling*
Sorta unrelated, but I also feel like Stemleaf was nicer in terms of his rejection he just said ‘Sorry, I didn’t know you felt that way. But I’ve always thought of you as a friend’ but BLAZEFIRE said that he liked her back, and then he didn’t, and then he was dating her bratty best friend ARRGHJCVG How could you?!
Also I don’t know why but this thing keeps jumbling my paragraphs together hmm
Hi! I know this is the Elders Den for warriors discussion but I just wanted to say…
TEAM FOSTER KEEFE FOR THE WIN!
Who? What?
Never read it but so far my friend has informed me that Sokeefe is good and Sofitz is bad. Uhhhh. Idk.
Sofitz isn’t bad. That’s a biased opinion. Sofitz is an okay ship, but most people (like myself) tend to lean more towards Sokeefe because Keefe is more understanding than Fitz at times. Keefe definitely has issues, and he doesn’t handle them well, but if he seeks the right help and allows himself to lean on Sophie and others, the relationship will generally be stronger and healthier than Sophie and Fitz’s. Evidence on this claim is when Fitz, in the time the two were dating, was very insistent on Sophie revealing her bio mom, despite her not being able to and not wanting to. He was asking because Sophie would be a bad match regardless of who she married (if she ever married), and though he genuinely liked and cared for her, he couldn’t get past the scorn and disappointment he would be faced with if he became a bad match to be with Sophie. Keefe, on the other hand, proclaimed he didn’t care, and that definitely was not a lie. I think, despite Keefe and Fitz’s (and Sophie’s!) mistakes, they would both be good matches, but Keefe and Sophie fit better together, with Keefe’s ability to make Sophie feel better and happier and Sophie’s determination to never give up on Keefe, even though at times he made it very clear he wanted her to.
My apologies if this rant is choppy and oddly put together; everything just flowed out and I couldn’t stop it. I just – as an avid Kotlc reader – want people to understand the logic behind each ship and why I believe Sokeefe is a little more healthy.
Wow. That was really good writing. Just gonna tell this to my friend….