Fan ArticlesOrielpaw shares their opinion on Ivypool.
Warning- before I start this article there are major spoilers for omen of the stars and beyond.
Ivypool. I have so many mixed feelings on her. On one hand she’s brave and clever but personality wise? She’s mean and nasty to her sister and passive aggressive to most the cats around her. So lets get further into her character!
I’m going to start with Omen of the Stars since that’s the first time Ivypaw and Dovepaw are introduced as important characters. As they start to learn to hunt and fight, Dovepaw is a skilled and a talented hunter, and Ivypaw is not as good as her. This is due to Dovepaw’s powers, but at this time Dovepaw and Ivypaw are unaware of this, so it just encourages Dovepaw to be better because she KNOWS she can do it, and it should do the same for Ivypaw, right? Unfortunately, this is not the case. Ivypaw is mean, nasty and jealous at her sister and Ivypaw puts the first toxins in their relationship.
Soon, Dovepaw hears the beavers, finds out about her powers, and goes on the quest, not able to bring Ivypaw along. Now, here I’d like to point out that there have been many sibling dynamics that sibling A couldn’t take sibling B on a quest. ( i. e. Squirrelpaw(flight) and Leafpaw(pool), Jayfeather going to the mountains, Twigpaw going to save Skyclan) None of those cats were mad or nasty when their sibling left. Even Squirrelpaw and Leafpaw, who had a similar situation to Ivypaw and Dovepaw, Leafpaw didn’t attack her sister or be mean. As Dovepaw is out saving the clans, Ivypaw literally spends her days kicking rocks at people.
So Dovepaw gets back and is shocked at how mean her sister is. Fast forward to Night Whispers, Dovepaw tells Ivypaw about her powers and Ivypaw agrees to spy in the dark forest. Ah yes- the dark forest! lets talk about that.
It Really Upsets me how easily Ivypaw is Manipulated by the dark forest cats. Tigerstar and Hawkfrost – cats she KNOW don’t have good intensions, she willingly trust because quote, “He…he flattered me; he seemed interested in what I could do, not what my sister could do. No cat has ever treated me like that in this Clan. I’m just your shadow here.” – Night whispers. Ok, first of all can Ivypaw really not talk to her sister without making her feel bad with something that’s not true? Ok, So back to Ivypaw- Now Ivypool spying in the dark forest!
She’s not a good spy. She finds out helpful stuff and.. doesn’t.. tell.. the three? Most the time she shrugs it off with “If I see something important, I’ll tell you.” And she’s still mean to Dovewing? Ok then… I’m going to say quickly- I don’t remember much about the forgotten warrior. So I’m not going to say anything about that. And I don’t really think speaking about The last Hope is important- Ivypool + Dovewing dynamics are not too important. But I will say Ivypool yells at Dovewing for being with Tigerstar’s kin at night while she’s with Tigerstar and his evil kin at night, and tells Dovewing that her feelings for Tigerheart are wrong and that’s really Upsetting to read about. But Ivypool’s quote in the battle to Applefur- “Fight loyally, and with courage. That is all your Clan asks of you.” Is really inspiring! I really hoped Ivypool would get better with A Vision Of Shadows!… But…
Ivypool really doesn’t have any loyalty to her sister and exposes Dovewing’s feelings for Tigerheart to Twigpaw, (In Thunder and Shadow) a cat she has no reason trust with her sisters secret. And that’s saying something.
Ivypool’s story is interesting- but she attacks like a villain to Dovewing, And I don’t Understand how most people prefer her.
And that’s all I have! This is my first article, So I hope to meet everyone here soon!
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Embers of a Winter Dawn (Emberdawn)
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Nice article, but I disagree.
First of all, Ivypaw was still half-kit when she joined Tigerstar to train. She felt like she needed to get better, like Dovewing. But after that she learned the DF’s true intentions and spied for them. It’s such a risk to take! She could die there. And Leafpaw and Ivypaw are different cats, and Ivypaw is allowed to feel jealousy. Ivypaw and Dovepaw mended their relationship soon, and it is WRONG for Dovewing to mate with Tigerheart, just saying. That’s why Ivypool tried to stop her. Ivypool was SPYING for the Clan’s, risking her life to gather information about the DF while Dovewing was flirting with Tigerheart.
And I don’t like Dovewing: she’s whiny, thinks that she’s the unluckiest cat in the whole universe, literally everything goes her way(nobody even disliked her when she joined ShadowClan, and Ivypool was nice to her even then), was written like she was soooooooooo important when she didn’t really do anything to help defeat the DF. I just HATE Dovewing. I think that Ivypool is much better.
Still, I love your article and I think its one of the best article I’ve seen in BlogClan! I think its reasonable. 🙂
Ivypaw is completely allowed to be jealous. But she acted immature by beings outright mean to dovepaw. She wasn’t even a good spy the way she told jayfeather and Lionblaze that “I’ll tell you if anything important happens!” …after killing antpelt
Yeah, also she was extremely naive for the first half of Oots, and sparked an unnecessary battle for a piece of land no one wanted because TIGERSTAR said so. Said battle wasted one of Firestar’s lives, and caused the death of Russetfur. So technically, it’s Ivypool’s fault that Firestar is dead, because she stupidly caused a battle that took one of his lives.
Not actually, birchfall, blossomfall and many others joined the df too
I get that stuff about Antpelt, but what would they think?
You don’t tell the people who just started to trust you that you killed somebody,.
Also thank you!!
Great article! Hey, Did you know my cats named is Oriel after oreos?
That’s such a cute name for your cat!
YESSSSSSSS! Great article! I soooooooooo agree with you!
I didn’t like Ivypool in OotS, really.
Great article, you made some pretty valid points! I do think that you forgot to mention her envy of Dovewing, something that was important to all of this. It was her jealousy of Dovewing that made her as bitter as she was. From the very beginning, she was jealous that her sister was better at hunting than her, and that’s why she was even more bitter when Dovewing when she went out on a quest when she didn’t. I honestly prefer Ivypool because I can relate to her much more than Dovewing. While I wasn’t a fan of all the Dark Forest spy stuff, I definitely love Ivypool’s amazing character arc and I can really relate to her jealousy and envy. Still, though, you made some really great points and I can see where you’re coming from!
I respect your opinion,but i disagree. Dovewing got special treatment. That’s literally discrimination , and of course she was jealous of that. Also,Ivypool was young and immature then. When Dovewing was immature,and whined and whined about her ‘powers’ and it the mooning about Tigerheart was so annoying. I don’t like blaming characters who did bad things when they were apprentices,but grew up to be a loyal ,cunning and brave sacrificing warrior. Also,Yes,there were various times when she didn’t tell the three the information,but there were also various times when she did tell them. Also,she agreed to be a spy,and how much bravery is also needed for that?Very much,i can tell. Ivypaw was manipulated easily because she was young,and she didn’t knew the world yet-also,because she was compared and Dovepaw was openly preferred over her. Of course she wanted to show her clan that she was worth something. Also,She was with Tigerstar because she thought he was a good cat- then,when she knew he wasn’t,she was with him because she was spying on him. Dovewing? Well……not exactly.
Also,in AvoS? What’s wrong with telling that? Its a wrongdoing,whatever it’s ‘love’ or something,it’s still a fault because rules hadn’t been changed yet. She’s right to tell that-I actually hoped she would tell the leader. Ivypool is a great cat overall,an awesome cat!
So you’re saying that Ivypool can be excused from mocking and being jealous of her sister, as well as being naive enough to spark an unnecessary battle between Thunderclan and Shadowclan, but Dovewing is a horrible cat just for loving Tigerheart? If that’s not discrimination, I don’t know what is. Plus, Dovewing never really wanted her powers in the first place. Sure she does end up missing them, but she gets over it. Meanwhile, Ivypool throws multiple hissing fits because of a power her sister never wanted. Also, has Ivypool actually given good info about the DF to the three? I have read Oots at least 4 times, and the best information Ivypool can give is the DF’s fighting moves. Wow. SO important. Add to that that she was stupid enough to believe Tigerstar in the first place?
Ivypool was an apprentice. She was still growing, still learning and all around her people were comparing her to her sister. A lot of their sibling rivalry happened because of miscommunication and insecurities. She looked down on herself because Dovewing had powers and because of this, she was constantly in her shadow. When Tigerstar came to her, all she wanted to do was be someone known for something other than Dovewing. She wanted to help her Clan like Dovewing was. She was lonely and Tigerstar preyed on that. This is not a situation where victim blaming is acceptable, it wasn’t her fault. As soon as she found out, she risked her own life to protect her Clan, the same thing she was trying to do this whole time.
To your point of her not being helpful,
who exactly convinced quite a few Dark Forest apprentices to stand up for their Clans? something that turned the tide of the battle immensely. And the fighting moves that you mock saved multiple people’s lives.
All of this is said respectfully but I feel like this issue has a lot of nuances that aren’t being seen.
WOW ITS FINALLY RELEASED! tho I made a typo….
Nice job !
I half-agree with you. Yes, Ivypool did all that, but she ended up being a brave, loyal warrior, while her sister, Dovewing, was sitting there with her ‘special powers’, everybody else fauning over her. Yeah, she did end up saving the clan, but anybody would get jealous of that eventually! And Ivypool, when she was an apprentice, was naive, young, and not as wise as she is later in the book, and she was so fed up with everyone paying attention to Dovewing, and not even caring when Ivypool did anything. Thats why she believed Hawkfrost and Tigerstar, she was gullable and not used to that kind of treatment. With the sibling-journey thing, she was upset because now, not only was Dovewing getting the attention of everyone, even Firestar, but she got to go on a mission to ‘save the clan’. I feel like Ivypool is just a misunderstood, lonely, and sad cat who needs a hug every day for the rest of her life.
Since when did Dovewing have everyone “fawning” over her. When, exactly was there any one instance of her being “fawned” over. I feel like everyone blames Dovewing for being. Mary Sue, but she really isn’t. Throughout Oots, she’s shown as being insecure, worrying constantly about everything, and sometimes fearing for her life. Compare that to someone like Spottedleaf, who has a gentle demeanor, is always described as pretty, and always smells “sweet”. See the difference?
(Part 1)
Nice article!
I agree. Ivypaw was nothing but petty to Dovepaw. Dovepaw was getting special treatment, and I can understand Ivypaw’s envy and jealousy towards her sister, but the problem is what happened afterward. After Dovepaw and Lionblaze leave, she’s not even proud for her sister. Yes, I understand that she was young, but if she cared about her sister she should’ve actually been proud of her to some extent. Later, she hisses at Bumblepaw for bringing up the subject of traveling, which is honestly pretty ridiculous.
Later, she mentions that she thinks Dovepaw is sneaking out at night to train. She should’ve known by that point that not everything is about her, that there was nothing to be “better” at. Dovepaw wasn’t even trying to make Ivypaw jealous or make her feel as though she had to best her, this was actually Ivypaw acting like she had to be the best. People accuse Dovewing of “whining” about her powers, but I actually think Ivypaw did most of the whining. She whined about being left behind and lashes out at everyone.
I disagree with your point, and I think you need some refuting.
Ivypaw and Dovepaw are both immature. Let’s all agree with that. When a person is immature they don’t understand what people think. Ivypaw was jealous of Dovepaw because she was better at everything than her because of Dovepaw’s special ability. Dovepaw assumes Ivypaw is jealous of her and continues her relationship with Tigerheart. Now, Dovepaw did know about Ivypaw’s jealousy. If she was a good sister, did she sympathize with her and explain the situation? No. Even though you might argue it was because Dovepaw need to keep it a secret, but Lionblaze and Jayfeather told Hollyleaf about their powers as soon as they discover it. In addition, Dovepaw could just try working out her sister like practicing hunting together and make Ivypaw feel appreciated. But she didn’t. When they talk together, Ivypaw tells Dovepaw to stop the forbidden romance. Dovepaw replies to this by saying that she is just jealous of her and she is going to turn the clan against her.
This is very ironic because Dovepaw was the one who indirectly made Ivypaw train in the Dark Forest. I think Ivypaw’s response was very rude, but her bitterness and her jealousy caused that. That does not mean Ivypaw’s action is justifiable, but Dovepaw’s actions aren’t as well. First, Ivypaw didn’t go to Dark Forest of full jealousy. When cats started to guilt-trip her, such as Blossomfall, this leads to Ivypaw being angry that she doesn’t get the same treatment as her. Not only that, she doesn’t know even why. It must seem unfair for Ivypaw to be always compared while not knowing the prophercy. Second, Ivypaw works hard to be like her sister. She works hard, she stays to practice but in the end, she gets less prey than her. While Dovepaw is relying on her ability, Ivypaw works hard to try to adapt to the situation accepting that she will not be better than her sister. But saying to the face that Ivypaw is not good enough makes her hurt her sister’s feelings.
Now, let’s go and rebutting your points.
1. She hisses at Bumblepaw for bringing up the subject of traveling, which is honestly pretty ridiculous.
Um, this is very minor and I think she was a jerk to Bumblepaw. But for Dovepaw, when Bumblepaw steps on her paw by mistake, she hissed and yelled at him and ignores him the whole time. That is not something that is justified, and she only apologized because Cinderheart (?) said so.
2. She thinks Dovepaw is sneaking out at night to train. She should’ve known by that point that not everything is about her, that there was nothing to be “better” at.
Everyone thinks they are the center of the world, this is the fact. But too much self-confidence is a bad thing though. Ivypaw never thought that she would be the best, she just wanted to be treated well and the same as her sisters. Why? She works hard and does hard in her training while Dovepaw just has to rely on her ability. But she is treated like a shadow of Dovepaw. She got jealous because Dovepaw doesn’t have to work hard as her to achieve more than her and how she always gets attention while she doesn’t know the reason for it.
3. After Dovepaw and Lionblaze leave, she’s not even proud of her sister.
How do you know that? The book was entirely Dovepaw’s perspective. Ivypaw is proud of her sister, but at the same time, she doesn’t understand why she is not chosen. Dovepaw and Ivypaw do everything together, so is natural that she assumes that. Like how Squirrelflight doesn’t understand why Leafpool chooses Starclan instead of her. Now Dovepaw is in a quest, Ivypaw must have suffered from all the comments about how she is not brilliant as her sister.
4. How could she not know DF is evil after two days?
Um, excuse me? Many cats did not know DF was evil, like Lionblaze and Crookedstar at first. They pretend to be Starclan cats that help them with training, and they don’t brutally train until cats can’t go out of Dark Forest. There is a period where the trainer can go out of DF but if it passed, they are doomed to train forever until they are released or kill the trainer. Besides, they understand their weakness and can easily manipulate them.
5. She caused an unnecessary battle that killed Russetfur and Firestar’s one life.
This is a major one and I like to rebut this by saying this- did Ivypaw know about the battle being planned and manipulated? No. Why do you blame her when she didn’t know that the battle will be worth brutal? Besides, Tigerstar and other DF cats can kill her if she does not talk about the battle sign of Starclan. Then who would know and who would spy for DF? She knew that if she didn’t, her clan will be dangered.
6. She is shown to be turning her back to Dovewing when she reveals her choice to join ShadowClan.
Okay, I am tired of repeating over and over but Ivypool was loyal to her clan. Even if she had a forbidden romance, she will still be loyal and cut off the relationship. I don’t really care about Dovewing’s decision to leave the clan, but it kind of portrayed to the clan that she is disloyal. Which is kind of true and is not entirely justified.
Now let’s move on to the question, “Is Dovewing whiny?” I like to say this as a yes and no. Dovewing was constantly dependent on her powers saying that they are like “senses” for her. Which I can understand a bit. However, it isn’t a good excuse to whine or whatsoever. Lionblaze and Jayfeather, when they lose their powers, they grow to accept that. Dovewing didn’t. This is very weird because Lionblaze and Jayfeather had the power longest, and Dovewing was the shortest. But I think she shouldn’t have been dependent on her powers for everything she does. Yes, I know it says that her special ability is hearing and she can’t be without it. However, as we saw in the books, she can turn on her ability to far places which proves that she doesn’t always listen far away. She could have limit her ability and try to practice. Or do other activities like fighting that don’t involve a lot of hearing. But I know she might not be able to, and I totally understand.
Let me explain my reasoning.
1. Dovewing was wrong for doing that, sure, but so is Ivypaw. I think in that case, they were just..being grumpy. While I understand her reasoning, they are both wrong here.
2. Ivypaw was in the shadow of her sister. I know that as well as you do, but what I can’t stand is that people treat her like, “Poor Ivypaw, I mean, she was always overshadowed by Dovepaw, which gives her the perfect excuse to hate her!” Besides, Ivypaw was the better fighter while Dovepaw was the better hunter. Why couldn’t she have just accepted that no cat could be a brilliant fighter and a hunting prodigy all at once? No one’s perfect, she would have known that.
3. I get where you’re coming from, but the point I was trying to get across is that she didn’t show it, and if you don’t show it then others won’t know it.
4. I’m not trying to imply she should have tried to escape, as that’s pretty much impossible, but she should have at least been cautious, given these are the cats that continually show up in nursery tales, and there were cats in the Clan that knew Hawkfrost, Tigerstar, etc.
5. She didn’t know back then, and she knows that a battle is never really a good thing. Also, the fact that she was able to spy on her Clan at all would imply the Dark Forest is incapable of seeing the territory and what goes on there like StarClan can.
6. She was not disloyal. She was not disloyal, she knew that she had gotten herself into this mess so she’d have to settle it. Best choice? Leave. Other options include “abandon kits”, “do nothing about it and fret”, and “ignore vision and other factors that push you to leave and stay”. Consider that. Ivypool on the other hand was being immature and really was just ignoring the fact that it was the best possible outcome for both her nieces and nephew, and for her sister.
“Is Dovewing whiny?”
No.
She is not the same cat as Jayfeather and Lionblaze, of course she might have a different reaction.
Also, Dovewing’s power was something involved with day-to-day life, as your senses are constantly active, whereas Jayfeather and Lionblaze’s powers weren’t exactly used every day, aside from the mind-reading stuff. However, when you’re alone, which happens often for a medicine cat with no apprentice, there aren’t any minds to read.
Great points, though!
A cat can never be perfect. Dovewing was kind of whiny, and Ivypool was also whiny sometimes. Yes, it does not justifies in jealousy of Dovewing but seriously it applies to Dovewing as well. Also, Ivypool wasn’t good at fighting either until she trained in DF. I think it wasn’t the best choice to leave, but I respect her opinion. I think the reason why the fandom is so obsessed with Ivypool is that she is very relatable. Not Dovewing.
(Part 2)
Although she was a young apprentice when Hawkfrost first came to her, she should have seen that the training in the Dark Forest was far too brutal to be legal. She woke up with real injuries, real wounds. She should’ve known that ThunderClan abided by the laws, and that as long as the Dark Forest was harming her, inflicting real wounds, like a limp or a swollen eye, the training there wasn’t legal.
She hardly even spies for her Clan, the Clans treated her like a hero and gave her so much credit for spying when she barely did that. All of the other protagonists except Flametail mention that she hardly tells them anything when asked about the Place of No Stars, only saying that she’ll tell them when there’s anything to report. She refused to tell anyone about how she came by her wounds when she fought Thistleclaw in SotM, when that could have given the Three a bit of information. Every scrap of information they could get would have been useful in that battle.
Later, in RoF, she is shown to be turning her back to Dovewing when she reveals her choice to join ShadowClan. Many people call Dovewing out for abandoning Ivypool here, but she didn’t “abandon” her sister, she made the right choice. What use would she have been in a Clan she no longer felt comfortable in?
Wow, I really went overboard there, didn’t I? I’m not supposed to be writing articles right now! 😛
I agree with you. Ivypool was always mean to Dovewing. I don’t know why people like her so much. Dovewing could be a bit snappy towards Ivypool, but all Ivypool really wanted to do was hurt her sister for being “better” than her. This is my opinion.
I disagree too, just imagine your sister being sooooo much better then you, don’t you just can’t help but become a bit jealous?